Flame Angelfish (Centropyge loricula) Breeding Log?!

[Luis A M]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8339984#post8339984 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Angel*Fish
Some of us are so expressive --lol-

Pero quiero apprender Espanol. De donde usted? Soy de Houston, Texas. Solamente estudio no mas las dias. Piensa aprendando el Espanol de Espana. Pero muchos de los Mexicanas aqui en Tejas hablan "Tex-Mex."

I knew you were Texan,I noticed your roll!
Kidding,avatars tell where people are from
I actually lived one year at San Antonio,lovely place!.There I learnt the joys of English,of breeding marines and of Mexican food
You can ask Edgar for some flavoury PR Spanish lessons They pronounce it "Pueltolican"
Sorry,Ed.didn´t mean to say that!:smokin:

 

[Angel*Fish]

San Antonio es bonita. Pero quando soy (fuero?) una chikita, mi padre me diga que Buenos Aires es la mas bonita ciudad en el mundo.

Lo siento para mi Espanol - Me gusto a lo hablar mucho!


Just to clarify and not to be rude - I tried to say:
San Antonio is nice. But when I was a little girl, my father told me that Buenos Aires is the most beautiful city in the world.
Sorry for my Spanish - I really love to speak it.

Who is Edgar?

 

[jake levi]

Matt
re the Euterpina acutifrons, its not a calanoid, but harpacticoid, but listed as pelagic and UH was using it for the centropyge also. Right now not having any luck locating either other then the above.

They could probably be isolated out of Pauls collections , would take a good scope. The rest could be fed.

I think we need to get Frank and Martin on the search. Once we can locate them I will start some cultures, got the tanks available right now.

 

[David M]

Who is Edgar?

AKA Ediaz in these here parts, m'am.

 

[jake levi]

Mtaa
that clayton smith in the UK wrote back taht he doesnt sell out of the UK,

I'm still looking,

Luis do you ship out of the country ?

 

[Luis A M]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8352318#post8352318 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jake levi
Mtaa


Luis do you ship out of the country ?

I guess it´s not legal,not easy for sure.You tried Algagen?

 

[mwp]

I haven't really had a chance to look through all the copepod posts but I promise I will! Just wanted to hop on and mention that once again, shortly before lights out (they're currently on a timer) I observed similar behavior as described in my last post, the smaller fish swimming in the upper water column displaying to the larger fish. This was followed by some chasing of the smaller fish, and then chasing of the larger fish! Interesting, not necessarily what I expect, but then again, these two are pretty much behaving like my Percs behaved for the first 6 months of their coexistence...tolerant but somewhat aggresive towards each other.

FWIW,

Matt

 

[jake levi]

Luis
the contact link on the site isnt working, do you have an email for him ?

He lists calanoid copepods though.

 

[jake levi]

Matt
I got this from Erik at algagen.com, thanks Luis.

Jake,

Greetings. How are you? We have Acartia tonsa and a harpacticoid called tisbe, also a small amount of Eutrapina(?). Not sure what is going on with the website...we have been experiencing a number of technological issues lately. Thanks for the info.

regards,
Erik


I'm guessing he is raising them on Iso, will find out.

 

[mwp]

Cool info Jake.

Just another update on the Flames - there was again psuedo-courtship going on last evening, but no spawn. They're still fighting during the day once in a while - basically I'd say it's "on par" with how the percs used to treat each other when initially paired up, the only difference being that the percs shared their Euphylia after a couple months (while still fighting).

Both flames have some fin damage as well, nothing major though. After careful observation I *think* that it's not the flames doing it to each other, but actually the pair of Perculas protecting their eggs. Our "male" flame definitely wants that territory (and maybe the eggs?) but even our little male perc can hold him at bay!

FWIW,

Matt

 

[mwp]

Well, our flame angel breeding experiment has come to an abrumpt end. The little one was alive last night. I came home this evening to find it DEAD, both eyes gone, and BIG CHUNKS of flesh missing, a hermit crab munching away on the carcass. No rhyme or reason to the death, everyone else in the tank is AOK. I'm sorry to say this, but the most plausible explination is MURDER. I have 50/50 odds on the 2 possible culprits - either it's mate (which over the last few weeks were getting along FINE and courting at night) or the recently introduced Halichiores sp. Wrasse (who is a convicted felon...killed our first RSB female). I'm actually kinda leaning towards the WRASSE.

THERE IS one other possibility - last night I did a BIG water change (8 gallons) to encourage the perc's next spawn. While I *think* I saw our little angel alive this morning, I'm not 100%. It is POSSIBLE that the little angel may have gotten trapped during low water, and only now did I find the corpse.

Well, that pretty much ends that experiment...I'm REALLY not happy about the outcome, ESPECIALLY since the I just got the calinoid copes started up a couple days ago AND since the pair seemed to be COMPATIBLE, interested in spawning, and otherwise doing well.

 

[danfrith]

I'm sorry to hear this matt.

 

[danfrith]

do you think you'll ever try them again? maybe after you get some money raised from the clowns?

 

[Angel*Fish]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8460371#post8460371 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mwp
Well, our flame angel breeding experiment has come to an abrumpt end. The little one was alive last night. I came home this evening to find it DEAD, both eyes gone, and BIG CHUNKS of flesh missing, a hermit crab munching away on the carcass. No rhyme or reason to the death, everyone else in the tank is AOK. I'm sorry to say this, but the most plausible explination is MURDER. I have 50/50 odds on the 2 possible culprits - either it's mate (which over the last few weeks were getting along FINE and courting at night) or the recently introduced Halichiores sp. Wrasse (who is a convicted felon...killed our first RSB female). I'm actually kinda leaning towards the WRASSE.

THERE IS one other possibility - last night I did a BIG water change (8 gallons) to encourage the perc's next spawn. While I *think* I saw our little angel alive this morning, I'm not 100%. It is POSSIBLE that the little angel may have gotten trapped during low water, and only now did I find the corpse.

Well, that pretty much ends that experiment...I'm REALLY not happy about the outcome, ESPECIALLY since the I just got the calinoid copes started up a couple days ago AND since the pair seemed to be COMPATIBLE, interested in spawning, and otherwise doing well.

Sorry to hear about your loss. The females are "sweeter" and easy to get attached to. And of course as they are the more difficult half of the pair to replace, I feel your pain.

I doubt that the male flame killed her.

Could have been "worms" if you didn't "deworm" them - like if they had migrated from the gut to a vital organ -- just a thought...

FWIW, I had a flame and a coral beauty who were both purchased on the same day at the same store. Six months down the road they both appeared healthy but then both fish mysteriously dropped dead within 48 hours of each other. No problems with any of the other 20+ fish. No symptoms of illness.

Try & find a female/juvenile, buy them a new 55g or bigger :rollface: And add them at the same time. They could be spawning in as little a 4-6 weeks. Sounds like a long time but in the trials and tribulations of angel breeding this is a somewhat minor setback. After all, it's all about the pods.

As my daughter's old coach used to say, "Yew can dew eet!" Best of luck to you.

 

[mwp]

Thanks for the consolation guys. The flames were a nice experiment, but as you may know, space is ULTRA tight (there is zero chance or space for any more tanks, let alone larger tanks). Finding another flame...well, maybe, but I'm not at a position where I can invest the funds in a project that from the get good had a <1% chance of total success.

As far as what caused the demise, well, the big thing here is that the wrasse was added shortly before the female's passing. The wrasse itself had been around for months in another tank, so it definitely didn't bring in any disease. It ISN'T all that peaceful though, so it may have been the culprit. I AM open to the possibility of internal disease or other types of problems that were simply unnoticed.

I guess the final word for now is that we have one OVER ACTIVE male flame angle always zooming around our tank, and for now, that's enough. At least we got as far as to prove that it IS POSSIBLE to pair up centropyge in a 24 gallon cube...I'm pretty confident we succeeded in that respect.

IF I were to revisit this in the coming year or two, I would remove the male, introduce the female for a day or two, then reintroduce the male (who is now most assuredly a male if we're going by coloration standards).

That's pretty much all I can say on the matter, other than the more that I think about it, the less likely it feels that the Male Flame had anything to do with the female's demise. This is the only 100% unexplained fish death I've had in the past 18 months...the rest have all been jumpers etc...

FWIW,

Matt

 

[achilles1]

I have read this thread before, but a local store has gotten some unusually small flames so I am going to try to make a pair or trio. Now the questions.

Should I try to form a pair or trio?

Will the flames be ok in a 300 gallon with a pair of coral beauties? (I am trying to pair them too. Just bought a small one.)

My pairing process is below. Is my pairing process sound?

My choices of pairing tanks are: standard 20L , 29, 55 gallon, or 48"x18"x12". All are FOWLRs. I also have a 10 I can use but thought it may be too small.

I think the best plan is to use the 20L or 29 divided with eggcrate. That way, the fish are in close proximety, but can do no real harm to each other.

Should I remove the eggcrate for an hour or so each day and observe?

Leave them seperated for two weeks before removing the eggcrate?

Just go for it?

None of the fish have been in any of those tanks thus they don't have any territories.

Will paired coral beauties and flames exist in a 300 with lots of hiding and swimming area? The aquascape is split into islands, valleys, and mounds. I think they will be fine as there will be plenty of other fish and placed to hide within the patches of the reef.

Any advice is appreciated.

thanks.

 

[mwp]

Since I only have this one experience under my belt, my gut tells me that in a 300 gallon tank, simply dump 3 or 5 flames into the tank and let them sort it out.

Pairing (working with only 2 flames) with eggcrate in between is very similar to how I initially introduced my pers, and is probably a more responsible option too, but that's only for pairing. If you want to create a harem situation, just dump 'em all in together.

Matt

 

[ATX aquarist]

mwp, could you send me a picure of you r seaorse tank? Ironically I am oking to set up nano with sea horses, a spotted mandrin, and gorgonians. Any advice would also help! my email is john082588@yahoo.com
Thank you very much

 

[David M]

set up nano with ... a spotted mandrin

Uhh... might want to rethink that a bit Unless of course you have that fish previously acclimated to non living foods.

As for the flames I have always done it with 5-7 fish in a 55. Easy to get pairs, trios and harems that way. Just need to be on standby to quickly remove any lesser male that doesn't make the cut :smokin:

 

[mwp]

John, find the 1st half of the Green Mandarin Breeding Log. From there, go to the 2nd post on the 2nd page, halfway down, I describe how I train my Synchiropus onto frozen foods...once you get that down they're pretty easy to work with.

The seahorse tank...it's nothing all that special, mostly a bunch of Caulerpa prolifera. The gorgonian species I've had the best luck with is the brown/orange one that's commonly sold as a Rusty Gorgonian out of the Carribean. For some reason, while most every other species I've kept has gotten overgrown with micro/hair algae, this species does FINE. Sure, I've had a couple others that did well for a WHILE, but even a Purple Feather that was going gangbusters in the clownfish tank for MONTHS (and was growing and starting up new stalks) crashed out overnight for now apparent reason.

FWIW,

Matt