I agree. Also, note that if a foxface gets hungry, it will nip at corals in order to consume their zooxanthellae.
Flame Angelfish
- Thread starter Gunjee
- Start date
I agree. Also, note that if a foxface gets hungry, it will nip at corals in order to consume their zooxanthellae.
mpderksen
New member
My Dwarf Flame is one of my favorites for sure. The pop of bright orange and bright blue edges is striking!
FWIW, I got a 20gal for $20 on the sale at Petsmart. I bought an extra 100w Ehiem heater (no controller) and a cheap HOB. I put a few 1 1/2" PVC fittings in the bottom for hiding places. No carbon if you use PraziPro! Total investment was <$100.
But here's the twist. I bought a box of Marine Pure balls and keep them in the sump of my main tank. Do NOT put them back if you end up using any copper in the QT!!! I put them in the HOB when I get a new fish.
Steve (Snorvich) recommends 72 days for QT, and I trust his advice. If I understand correctly, this amount of time is sufficient and required for any parasites to truly show themselves.
For feeding, a new fish has to compete with the established community, while it may be extra in need of nutrition and super shy. So for a new Flame, I would get a veggie clip and keep some nori on it daily, in addition to a daily meat source (I like Rods).
My 0.02$
FWIW, I got a 20gal for $20 on the sale at Petsmart. I bought an extra 100w Ehiem heater (no controller) and a cheap HOB. I put a few 1 1/2" PVC fittings in the bottom for hiding places. No carbon if you use PraziPro! Total investment was <$100.
But here's the twist. I bought a box of Marine Pure balls and keep them in the sump of my main tank. Do NOT put them back if you end up using any copper in the QT!!! I put them in the HOB when I get a new fish.
Steve (Snorvich) recommends 72 days for QT, and I trust his advice. If I understand correctly, this amount of time is sufficient and required for any parasites to truly show themselves.
For feeding, a new fish has to compete with the established community, while it may be extra in need of nutrition and super shy. So for a new Flame, I would get a veggie clip and keep some nori on it daily, in addition to a daily meat source (I like Rods).
My 0.02$
Larger carnivores, things like lionfish, do better with large non-daily feedings. Most reef fish, however, do better if you give them a couple of small feedings a day. That's the key- small feedings. The idea isn't to give them a lot of food, it's to mimic the eat-small-things-all-day diet they have in the wild.
IUfan
Member
Check salinity of the LFS water! You'll find it's down in the 28ppt range, that's a big jump to your (presumably) 35ppt DT water.
This shock can lead to problems down the road.
It's what eventually changed my mind on QT, just set the water salinity to around 1.020 sg, that is usually what most retailers hold them at, then spend a few days bringing the new arrival slowly up to DT salinity levels. Also gives you chance to observe and then if she looks good, in they go to the DT. I run my QT year round now, keeping the filter active, and just lower salinity when I expect a new fish purchase.
This method has led to far more success with new fish arrivals, and I'm a big advocate of it now. Just my 0.02
This shock can lead to problems down the road.
It's what eventually changed my mind on QT, just set the water salinity to around 1.020 sg, that is usually what most retailers hold them at, then spend a few days bringing the new arrival slowly up to DT salinity levels. Also gives you chance to observe and then if she looks good, in they go to the DT. I run my QT year round now, keeping the filter active, and just lower salinity when I expect a new fish purchase.
This method has led to far more success with new fish arrivals, and I'm a big advocate of it now. Just my 0.02
cheeset202
New member
Sorry to hear about your troubles with the flame angel. I am new to the hobby and have made some mistakes over the past year learning about this fascinating, addicting and expensive hobby. My flame angel has been with me from the beginning and I mostly feed brine shrimp and pellets. The angel has done great so far. It is definitely the king or queen of the tank. I also have a clown, marine beta, fire fish, six stripe wrasse, bi color Benny, a couple shrimp and several corals, so far so good, yet to lose a fish. The angel will occasionally try to corner one of my other fish for a few seconds and then leaves them alone. I only feed once per day and have not had any problems. Tank parameters are Ca at 420, Alk at 9, temp at 78 and salinity at 1.025. I went through green hair algae for about 8 months, started a phos ban reactor and it cleared up. Most of what I have learned has been through reading many forums and from the folks that have been doing this for along time. Not sure why your angel will not eat. I have great Los and he has been very helpful in determining what fish I can keep together in my tank and has deterred me from mixing the wrong species. Hope your flame angel trials turn for the better as they are definitely one of the jewels of the reef.
Is the brine shrimp that you feed, enriched? I've always heard that brine shrimp has little nutritional value...
Your six stripe (6 line) wrasse can become very aggressive, especially with new additions, IMO you should remove it if you can.
Although many people do not feed as often...small multiple feeding are recommended...
cheeset202
New member
My brine shrimp is enriched but I do supplement with pellets due to the concerns on brine shrimp. I will watch my wrasse based on your comments, have had him for about 6 months now and no issues. Interestingly though the most aggressive fish I have towards me is my clown, he attacks my hands every time I put them in the water, no backing down, learned he has teeth! I will look into feeding more often, will need to use auto feeder as I leave for work early in the morning and get home around 7 so only one feeding. I have an AFS feeder on my Apex that I use when I am away from home. I am somewhat hesitant on auto feeders as I had a c.lose call with an enheim feeder that dumped way too much in the tank and my skimmer went nuts overflowing my tank and ATO proceeded to fill my tank with fresh water. Bought a controller after that fiasco. Didn't lose anything but certainly taught me a lesson! Thanks for the input, always appreciate other reefers comments.
In an established tank like yours, I doubt that the flame starved in a week or so. The nature of dwarf angels is that they pick all day long. I've owned a few over the years, some lasted 7 or eight years, but none were what I would call voracious eaters. They would have a few bites at meal time, then go back to picking.
I highly doubt the fish were cyanide caught. Most come from Christmas Islands or the Marshall Islands - where cyanide isn't used. Seems to me that you gave them a reasonable chance and for some reason it didn't work out. Sometimes fish die despite a good effort. I would invest in a simple qtank. It'll likely save you a big headache down the road.
I highly doubt the fish were cyanide caught. Most come from Christmas Islands or the Marshall Islands - where cyanide isn't used. Seems to me that you gave them a reasonable chance and for some reason it didn't work out. Sometimes fish die despite a good effort. I would invest in a simple qtank. It'll likely save you a big headache down the road.
Stevenliu9
New member
I tend to get those known finicky eaters at local fish stores and would only take them if I see them eating like a pig at the store. Flames tend to pick on rock all day even with lots of feeding so make sure you have mature tank with algae all over the rock to pick on. My flame eats spirulina brime on day 1 of intro, then mixed in PE mysis and garlic extract. On 3 in general i have been able to getthem eating flakes and pellets
AirForceAquariu
Member
Random Flame question:
What is their normal swimming pattern. Mine is about 2 months established in the DT and seems to like making a figure 8ish pattern through some rockwork caves etc. which seems normal. Sometimes though he will dart around a couple of time, almost twitchy, then settle down. He isn't lunging at other fish or anything. Seems like a nervous tick. Normal? Unhealthy?
What is their normal swimming pattern. Mine is about 2 months established in the DT and seems to like making a figure 8ish pattern through some rockwork caves etc. which seems normal. Sometimes though he will dart around a couple of time, almost twitchy, then settle down. He isn't lunging at other fish or anything. Seems like a nervous tick. Normal? Unhealthy?
mpderksen
New member
Sounds like mine, actually. He has a favorite cave and goes in and out all the time, then take a trip around the block. I think of it like circuit training. No twitching though. Unless there's Nori, then it's GO time until it's gone.
Quarantine up and running...
Quarantine up and running...
Hi all - I'm reviving this thread with a follow up. So I got a Fluval Spec V nano setup as the quarantine tank. I kept the sponge filter in my main tank's sump for about 3 weeks. I also added some rubble from the main tank. I also filled the nano with water from the main tank. I've been running the quarantine tank 24/7 for a little over a week.
I picked up another Flame Angelfish yesterday. I've been visiting the LFS often and watched this guy for about a week and a half. Since he was doing well in the LFS for over a week, I decided to buy him. (LFS wouldn't hold the fish for me, but luckily nobody else bought it during that time.)
As you all have said, he's been picking at the rocks all day long. I added some nori strapped with a rubber band. He is barely picking at it. A couple of hours later, I added Sprectrum pellets (soaked in garlic). A couple of hours after that I added frozen Angelfish Formula (Ocean Nutrition). I haven't seen him eat any of it so far, but it has only been one day.
I also added a turbo snail and a hermit crab from my main tank for cleaning. Hopefully he'll start eating something...
Quarantine up and running...
Hi all - I'm reviving this thread with a follow up. So I got a Fluval Spec V nano setup as the quarantine tank. I kept the sponge filter in my main tank's sump for about 3 weeks. I also added some rubble from the main tank. I also filled the nano with water from the main tank. I've been running the quarantine tank 24/7 for a little over a week.
I picked up another Flame Angelfish yesterday. I've been visiting the LFS often and watched this guy for about a week and a half. Since he was doing well in the LFS for over a week, I decided to buy him. (LFS wouldn't hold the fish for me, but luckily nobody else bought it during that time.)
As you all have said, he's been picking at the rocks all day long. I added some nori strapped with a rubber band. He is barely picking at it. A couple of hours later, I added Sprectrum pellets (soaked in garlic). A couple of hours after that I added frozen Angelfish Formula (Ocean Nutrition). I haven't seen him eat any of it so far, but it has only been one day.
I also added a turbo snail and a hermit crab from my main tank for cleaning. Hopefully he'll start eating something...
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IUfan
Member
What was the salinity of the LFS water? And what did you set your QT at?
I think he'll be fine, it's only been a day, new arrivals are normally stressed and adjusting to there new surroundings on first couple of days and have no interest in eating. slow down the feeding so to not spoil the water, be patient.
Maybe try some live brine next, get him used to eating in the tank and get some food in his belly.
I think he'll be fine, it's only been a day, new arrivals are normally stressed and adjusting to there new surroundings on first couple of days and have no interest in eating. slow down the feeding so to not spoil the water, be patient.
Maybe try some live brine next, get him used to eating in the tank and get some food in his belly.
mpderksen
New member
Did you see him/her eat the the LFS? If so, you could ask them what they feed and duplicate it, or just ask them for a little to try?
By the way, nice job taking the time to QT instead of just dumping him in the main tank. Whether or not he survives, you've given it the best chance so kudos to you.
Cheers,
Michael
By the way, nice job taking the time to QT instead of just dumping him in the main tank. Whether or not he survives, you've given it the best chance so kudos to you.
Cheers,
Michael
Thanks for the kudos...! Yes, I did have the LFS feed him - they use mysis. But he was barely eating it. My decision on getting him was predicated on the fact that he survived in the LFS for over a week. But I'll give it a few days as suggested to let him settle in...
I guess I have to go through the entire process again if / when moving him to the main tank...:mad2:
mpderksen
New member
Every fish is different, but I will say mine is not the crazy, charge after the food, kind of eater. My Maroon, One-spot Foxface and Kole go after the food pretty hard. Even my Chromis is more active at feeding time. The Flame is more like the Cardinalfish, she gets in there to get her share, but it's more like, take a bite, hang back, then go back for another. My FoxFace gulps down pellets and Mysis like its her last meal before a marathon.
Her color and body weight is great, but I think she picks around all day and doesn't need as much?
I don't think you'll have to start over in the DT. Drop in multiple locations at once and if it's something she has gotten used to, she'll transition
Wow - I guess all fish have similar attitudes. My cardinal is the same way, goes in for his share and then is done. My cinnamon clown and clarkii clown are voracious eaters. I keep nori on a veggie clip for 1/2 day, and my one spot fox face and tomini tang spend all day nipping at the nori...
So I was thinking three weeks is long enough for the Flame Angelfish to be in quarantine. Is that a good enough time period...? I've read that that is how long it would take if parasites were present...
So I was thinking three weeks is long enough for the Flame Angelfish to be in quarantine. Is that a good enough time period...? I've read that that is how long it would take if parasites were present...
IMO/E, any fish can survive MORE than a week or 2 without eating...
mpderksen
New member
72 days. I reference Steve (Snorvich) for this, and trust his expertise.
Marshall O
New member
I typically QT new fish between 6-10 weeks. 6 weeks for "easier" fish that show no signs of any kind of illness and are eating great. 10 weeks for "harder" fish, or that show any signs of disease (I have QT'd much longer than this as well, up to 4 months before).
3 weeks is not enough. I learned that early on. I only did 3 weeks with a Carpenter's Flasher Wrasse, and sure enough, it brought Ich into my tank. I ended up losing the Wrasse, along with 3 other fish.
3 weeks is not enough. I learned that early on. I only did 3 weeks with a Carpenter's Flasher Wrasse, and sure enough, it brought Ich into my tank. I ended up losing the Wrasse, along with 3 other fish.
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