I have a Powder Blue Tang in QT that I've treated with PraziPro 4 TIMES NOW and the Flukes just keep coming back! I've tried both 5-day and 7-day intervals. Results are always the same. He starts twitching, the twitching gets worse, I hit him with a couple treatments of PraziPro and he seems fine for about a week or two. Then the twitching starts back up, and we rinse and repeat. I've read that PraziPro only kills the Flukes and not their eggs. So, how do you ever beat Flukes w/PraziPro if the Flukes just keep laying more eggs, generation after generation?!
Flukes just won't go away!!!
- Thread starter b0bab0ey
- Start date
RegalAngel
Member
First...are you sure its Flukes? Could be Marine Ich...can cause same symptoms.
http://www.fishyfarmacy.com/products.html#D
De-Los
USE: For control of anchor worms, lice, gill flukes and assorted external parasites on freshwater, Koi and marine tropical fish. Toxic to sharks and snails. Do not use on prehistoric fishes such as arowanas, silver dollars, lionfish. Not for use in tanks which contain invertebrates.
DOSAGE: 1/2 teaspoon per 10 gallons. Treat once a week for 4 weeks. 1/2 pound (treats 908 gal.) If you are using this product in outdoor Koi ponds, no water changes are necessary. This product will kill fluke eggs, Praziquantel will not.
I have not used this product and someone mentioned it can be stressful for the fish compared to PraziPro.
http://www.fishyfarmacy.com/products.html#D
De-Los
USE: For control of anchor worms, lice, gill flukes and assorted external parasites on freshwater, Koi and marine tropical fish. Toxic to sharks and snails. Do not use on prehistoric fishes such as arowanas, silver dollars, lionfish. Not for use in tanks which contain invertebrates.
DOSAGE: 1/2 teaspoon per 10 gallons. Treat once a week for 4 weeks. 1/2 pound (treats 908 gal.) If you are using this product in outdoor Koi ponds, no water changes are necessary. This product will kill fluke eggs, Praziquantel will not.
I have not used this product and someone mentioned it can be stressful for the fish compared to PraziPro.
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Thanks! I'm gonna look into this!
You might want to look into lowering the salinity in your tank to 1.019 if your not already doing so. Lower salinities even as low as 1.015 can drastically reduce infectious organisms. They just can't survive in these conditions. the fish will do just fine in these salinities especially for enough time to rid any parasites etc...
A quick google search provided this:
http://www.aquacon.com/chat.html
A quick google search provided this:
http://www.aquacon.com/chat.html
First time I treated, I dosed with Prazi and did the 2nd dose 7 days later. The tang looked fine for about a week and then started twitching again. So I treated again, but this time I did the second treatment 5 days after the 1st one.
I know people keep saying this must be Ich but here's the thing: Why does the PB Tang stop twitching a day or two after I treat with PraziPro? If he has Ich, shouldn't he continue to twitch?
LargeAngels
Premium Member
Do a FW dip when he starts twitching. If you don't see any flukes in the bottom of the container then you know it isn't flukes. How big is the tank and how much are you dosing? Did you shake the bottle really well everytime? It sometimes takes 3 treatments in a row to totally get rid of flukes.
I started treating with Prazi again 2 days ago. Yesterday he wasn't twitching much, today he's not doing it at all. But if I see him twitch again I'm gonna yank him out and do a f/w dip. I plan on doing 3 or 4 consecutive doses this time around, 4 days apart.
My QT tank is a 29 gal w/ an u/g filter. I turn off the power filter and stop running carbon while I'm medicating. I shake the bottle so much before I dose (1.5 tsp or 15 ml) that my wife snatches it out of my hand and tells me to stop being so OCD. :hammer:
I've considered the possibility that the crushed coral gravel (or dead coral skeletons) in my tank could be absorbing some of the medication. What do you think? I really don't want to break my QT completely down and re-do it unless I know for sure that's a real possibility.
LargeAngels
Premium Member
That's funny.
I don't know about using gravel in an filter situation as yours, but using gravel/rocks with external filtering has not IME affected the Prazipro.
The tang stopped twitching but was breathing heavy when I got home today. This is def a new development.
So I hit the tank w/Cupramine. That should cover most of the bases. I will continue w/the prazi treatments though. Enough is enough, it's time to put this thing to bed.
LargeAngels
Premium Member
The gravel will absorb the Cupramine so daily testing and additions will be needed.
Have you seen any flukes on the eyes or the body? If they are on the eyes they will appear like little opaque smudges. Prazi treatments require at least 3 treatments, but go with 4 treatments to be safe and 7 days apart. Prazi can cause the DO to go down so increase the DO during the treatment. A minimum contact time of 8 hours is required but more than 12 hours is preferable. This will take care of the flukes. If you decide to treat with copper in tangent, which I have never done but I've read it is safe, watch your ammonia levels as well because the copper will kill off you nitrifying bacteria. Therapeutic levels for copper is 0.18 ppm or mg/L but no higher than 0.25 mg/l. Maintain that level for at least 21 days. If you do a water change, just redose with the amount that you pulled out (e.g 10% wc = 2.9 gallons, redose for 2.9 gallons). Have faith you are on the right path, you just need to treat longer!
I've started treating with copper (Cupramine) but I'm going to keep treating with Prazi concurrently. And 4 treatments sounds good to me, since I plan on leaving him in copper for over a month. But I'm a little confused about the intervals between Prazi treatments...
4 days?
5 days?
7 days?
Seems to be varying opinions this. Today is Day 4 after the first treatment...
4 days?
5 days?
7 days?
Seems to be varying opinions this. Today is Day 4 after the first treatment...
RegalAngel
Member
PraziPro
Q & A w/Hikari.....
Q. The directions indicate it is ok to use after 3-5 days. Does
Prazipro disipate after 72hrs?
A. "It is intented for use for at least 3 days, this is the minimum amount of time we have found in our research to knock down an infestation of flukes or worms. For improved results let the treatment run for a longer period of time."
"...you can redose after 3 days (just make sure you do a large water change before dosing again) but I would suggest unless you have a severe issue to let the treatment run for 7 days, do the major water change and then redose. This will provide the more cost effective treatment."
Q. What's a large water change?
A. "a water change is required, the directions on the bottle clearly state to start with as large a water change as practical or start with new water. Our concern here is that the dying parasites will put toxins in to the water and the biggest risk to the other inhabitants are these toxins, the bio-load and the reduced oxygen level this process can cause. With a large water change we reduce the impact of this process in a big way. The risk is not the product, it's what is being eliminated in the closed environment."
Hope that helps
RA
Q & A w/Hikari.....
Q. The directions indicate it is ok to use after 3-5 days. Does
Prazipro disipate after 72hrs?
A. "It is intented for use for at least 3 days, this is the minimum amount of time we have found in our research to knock down an infestation of flukes or worms. For improved results let the treatment run for a longer period of time."
"...you can redose after 3 days (just make sure you do a large water change before dosing again) but I would suggest unless you have a severe issue to let the treatment run for 7 days, do the major water change and then redose. This will provide the more cost effective treatment."
Q. What's a large water change?
A. "a water change is required, the directions on the bottle clearly state to start with as large a water change as practical or start with new water. Our concern here is that the dying parasites will put toxins in to the water and the biggest risk to the other inhabitants are these toxins, the bio-load and the reduced oxygen level this process can cause. With a large water change we reduce the impact of this process in a big way. The risk is not the product, it's what is being eliminated in the closed environment."
Hope that helps
RA
PraziPro
Q & A w/Hikari.....
Q. The directions indicate it is ok to use after 3-5 days. Does
Prazipro disipate after 72hrs?
A. "It is intented for use for at least 3 days, this is the minimum amount of time we have found in our research to knock down an infestation of flukes or worms. For improved results let the treatment run for a longer period of time."
"...you can redose after 3 days (just make sure you do a large water change before dosing again) but I would suggest unless you have a severe issue to let the treatment run for 7 days, do the major water change and then redose. This will provide the more cost effective treatment."
Q. What's a large water change?
A. "a water change is required, the directions on the bottle clearly state to start with as large a water change as practical or start with new water. Our concern here is that the dying parasites will put toxins in to the water and the biggest risk to the other inhabitants are these toxins, the bio-load and the reduced oxygen level this process can cause. With a large water change we reduce the impact of this process in a big way. The risk is not the product, it's what is being eliminated in the closed environment."
Hope that helps
RA
Thanks for the good info! Looks like I'll be mixing a lot of s/w for the WCs and dosing a lot of Cupramine to keep my copper levels up. Ain't nothing in this hobby easy or cheap... :dance:
padova335i
Member
great thread!
'I hate flukes.. just had a shipment of fish arrive.. one of my wrasses was just about DOA.. sure enough when brought out of water,, flukes... Now I have 3 other wrasses in my qt along w 4 helfrichs, 4 borbonius anthias... will they all be ok? i would like to treat them all... Not sure if flukes jump from fish to fish...
Is there any fish or invert that eat the flukes of the fish?
thanx guys
'I hate flukes.. just had a shipment of fish arrive.. one of my wrasses was just about DOA.. sure enough when brought out of water,, flukes... Now I have 3 other wrasses in my qt along w 4 helfrichs, 4 borbonius anthias... will they all be ok? i would like to treat them all... Not sure if flukes jump from fish to fish...
Is there any fish or invert that eat the flukes of the fish?
thanx guys
If I were you I would just assume that the entire shipment is infected and treat them all. IME Flukes are just as transmittable as, say, Ich. Treat with Prazi. The trick I learned from this experience is sometimes you have to treat 4-5 consecutive times (5 days apart) to completely eradicate Flukes because while the medication will kill the actual worms, it doesn't kill their eggs. So you have to keep hitting them with Prazi to wipe them all out before they have the chance to lay more eggs. That can sometimes take several treatments.
Btw, how exactly did you confirm Flukes on the wrasse that was just about DOA?
padova335i
Member
the flukes turn white out of water/or when u did the wrasses in fresh water.. i'll probably use prazi like u mentioned..then hypo a little as well
Do you think its ok to prazi helfrichs as well.. i have 4 helfrichs, 4 wrasses and 4 borboius all in a 70 tall qt,,
Do you think its ok to prazi helfrichs as well.. i have 4 helfrichs, 4 wrasses and 4 borboius all in a 70 tall qt,,
I've used it on Firefish before with no problems.
padova335i
Member
thank u
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