Flashy Fins
New member
Thanks. That is reassuring. How often did you feed in QT?
Flukes? reef tank & pod cultures
- Thread starter Flashy Fins
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Thanks. That is reassuring. How often did you feed in QT?
Newsmyrna80
Active member
Give the mandarin a break for a few days. He needs to get his strength back. If you can get bottled pods of at least clean ones I would try to feed him with a pipette. I would feed mine a few times a day. I took a small jar and squirted pods, cyclopeeze and caviar in the jar. He would go in for the pods and stay for the other stuff.
When doing dips I use the water from the rank. Whatever is in it will get killed off by the formalin.
When doing dips I use the water from the rank. Whatever is in it will get killed off by the formalin.
Flashy Fins
New member
Ok, thanks. I don't think he would eat a pod even if it was in front of his face right now. He doesn't seem alert at all, more like a patient in a coma. I don't have local access to clean pods, but I'm placing an online order now. He does like cyclopeeze and Reef Nutrition R.O.E., so if he comes out of his coma-like state, I will try to feed.
How much Quick Cure in how much saltwater for the dips, and how long should the dips be?
Newsmyrna80
Active member
This website has some good info: http://www.chucksaddiction.com/brookynella.html
Go with the lower dosage for the dragonet. I did the dips for 30-40 minutes every other day. Some recommend doing them every day but it was very hard on the flame angel I was trying to cure.
Go with the lower dosage for the dragonet. I did the dips for 30-40 minutes every other day. Some recommend doing them every day but it was very hard on the flame angel I was trying to cure.
Flashy Fins
New member
Thank you, that looks very helpful. I'll read it thoroughly right after this post.
I performed a dip with both pipefish earlier today, using 1.5 teaspoons of Quick Cure in one gallon of tank water (very glad to read I did not completely overdo it, but I will cut back to 1 teaspoon with future dips). The female pipefish began to jump after 25 minutes, so I moved her to a bowl of QT tank water to rinse off and calm down. She continued to jump, but the salinity is lower in that water, so that was probably the reason. The male handled 30 minutes in the dip before beginning to jump, so I removed him then and did the same rinse in QT water, which he handled better. He is the one I've seen gently rubbing up against algae on the tank walls the past couple of days; the female has shown no symptoms. I did not do any freshwater dips.
I moved both pipefish to the QT with the dragonet, who seemed to perk up a little when he saw other fish, but is still not very active. I added a tiny amount of cyclopeeze, but I don't think he ate. The QT powerhead was way too strong for the pipefish, blowing them all over the place, so I switched it out with a large airstone. Now, I'm just waiting to see if the green banded goby turns up. He may have already died in the display. I have not seen him since Tuesday.
I performed a dip with both pipefish earlier today, using 1.5 teaspoons of Quick Cure in one gallon of tank water (very glad to read I did not completely overdo it, but I will cut back to 1 teaspoon with future dips). The female pipefish began to jump after 25 minutes, so I moved her to a bowl of QT tank water to rinse off and calm down. She continued to jump, but the salinity is lower in that water, so that was probably the reason. The male handled 30 minutes in the dip before beginning to jump, so I removed him then and did the same rinse in QT water, which he handled better. He is the one I've seen gently rubbing up against algae on the tank walls the past couple of days; the female has shown no symptoms. I did not do any freshwater dips.
I moved both pipefish to the QT with the dragonet, who seemed to perk up a little when he saw other fish, but is still not very active. I added a tiny amount of cyclopeeze, but I don't think he ate. The QT powerhead was way too strong for the pipefish, blowing them all over the place, so I switched it out with a large airstone. Now, I'm just waiting to see if the green banded goby turns up. He may have already died in the display. I have not seen him since Tuesday.
Flashy Fins
New member
Had to leave home for a few hours and came back to two dead pipefish. 
Their bodies looked perfect with no cloudy patches, no spots, no evident gill damage (although they were very tiny, so it would be hard to see), nothing obviously amiss, aside from being dead. I suspect the dip was too harsh on them, or else the stress of everything combined did them in. Maybe I should've separated them and watched for brook symptoms before dipping, but I was afraid I would miss the window to help them if I did.
The red dragonet is moving around a little more. Not a lot, but he looks better than he did yesterday and this afternoon. I'm going to focus on getting him to eat and making sure his water is free of ammonia. I will dip him again tomorrow or Saturday, depending on how he looks and acts.
I am researching drug interactions to make sure I can use Maracyn 2, which is recommended in Chuck's article to prevent secondary infections and is something I have already. I would like to dose Prazi for the flukes, too, but is that safe while using antibiotics and performing the Quick Cure dips? I figure the flukes are the least threatening issue at hand, but would still like to take care of them. I haven't acquired Prazi yet, just been too sidetracked with the other problems. I'll call a few stores tomorrow to see who has it.
Their bodies looked perfect with no cloudy patches, no spots, no evident gill damage (although they were very tiny, so it would be hard to see), nothing obviously amiss, aside from being dead. I suspect the dip was too harsh on them, or else the stress of everything combined did them in. Maybe I should've separated them and watched for brook symptoms before dipping, but I was afraid I would miss the window to help them if I did. The red dragonet is moving around a little more. Not a lot, but he looks better than he did yesterday and this afternoon. I'm going to focus on getting him to eat and making sure his water is free of ammonia. I will dip him again tomorrow or Saturday, depending on how he looks and acts.
I am researching drug interactions to make sure I can use Maracyn 2, which is recommended in Chuck's article to prevent secondary infections and is something I have already. I would like to dose Prazi for the flukes, too, but is that safe while using antibiotics and performing the Quick Cure dips? I figure the flukes are the least threatening issue at hand, but would still like to take care of them. I haven't acquired Prazi yet, just been too sidetracked with the other problems. I'll call a few stores tomorrow to see who has it.
Newsmyrna80
Active member
I'm sorry about the pipefish...it's weird they both died at the same time. I would do a very weak dip on the dragonet since he seems to be getting some strength back. I would hold off on the Prazi. If there are any flukes the formalin will take care of them.
Flashy Fins
New member
Thanks for the info about the formalin killing flukes. That is very good to know.
Yes, I thought the deaths strange, as well, because both fish swam around at times during the dip, so I didn't think much of placing them in the QT and leaving soon after. The powerhead that blew them around when they first went in was very stressful, I'm sure, but it's strange to think a minute or two of that would have killed them. If I ever need to dip a blue stripe pipefish in the future (hopefully not), I will use a much weaker concentration.
I dipped the flasher wrasse last night using only half a teaspoon to a gallon of his tank water, hesitant to use more after reading wrasses are sometimes sensitive to it. He has been hiding in a PVC tube in his tank and has been very lethargic. I was able to scoop the PVC out with a net while he was still inside it. Unfortunately, he freaked out once he was out of the water and bit the net, so it was stuck on his teeth and had to be carefully cut away. That was not an easy or quick thing to do, but he did allow me. I used tiny manicure scissors and was careful not to cut his lip. I'm sure it stressed him out, so I'm glad i used a weaker dip.
I'm concerned I'm doing dips and then putting the fish back into tanks with disease to be reinfected, so I'm setting up new ones to use the alternating two tank method in Chuck's article for each fish (4 tanks total). This should help me with ammonia concerns in uncycled tanks and also with treatment. I have ammonia badges in the tanks, as well.
I'm going to start antibiotics with the dragonet as soon as his new tank is ready (water is mixing now). I have both Kanaplex and Maracyn 2 on hand. I've been reading up on them and think the Kanaplex may be the better of the two to use with the dragonet.
Do you think I should use antibiotics as a preventative with the wrasse? I'm considering the Kanaplex for him, too. Edit: decided yes, I will treat the wrasse with Kanaplex. Lethargy is his only symptom, so it seems he may have a bacterial infection.
Yes, I thought the deaths strange, as well, because both fish swam around at times during the dip, so I didn't think much of placing them in the QT and leaving soon after. The powerhead that blew them around when they first went in was very stressful, I'm sure, but it's strange to think a minute or two of that would have killed them. If I ever need to dip a blue stripe pipefish in the future (hopefully not), I will use a much weaker concentration.
I dipped the flasher wrasse last night using only half a teaspoon to a gallon of his tank water, hesitant to use more after reading wrasses are sometimes sensitive to it. He has been hiding in a PVC tube in his tank and has been very lethargic. I was able to scoop the PVC out with a net while he was still inside it. Unfortunately, he freaked out once he was out of the water and bit the net, so it was stuck on his teeth and had to be carefully cut away. That was not an easy or quick thing to do, but he did allow me. I used tiny manicure scissors and was careful not to cut his lip. I'm sure it stressed him out, so I'm glad i used a weaker dip.
I'm concerned I'm doing dips and then putting the fish back into tanks with disease to be reinfected, so I'm setting up new ones to use the alternating two tank method in Chuck's article for each fish (4 tanks total). This should help me with ammonia concerns in uncycled tanks and also with treatment. I have ammonia badges in the tanks, as well.
I'm going to start antibiotics with the dragonet as soon as his new tank is ready (water is mixing now). I have both Kanaplex and Maracyn 2 on hand. I've been reading up on them and think the Kanaplex may be the better of the two to use with the dragonet.
Do you think I should use antibiotics as a preventative with the wrasse? I'm considering the Kanaplex for him, too. Edit: decided yes, I will treat the wrasse with Kanaplex. Lethargy is his only symptom, so it seems he may have a bacterial infection.
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Newsmyrna80
Active member
Good grief...What an ordeal! I actually did the same thing which is basically a tank transfer method. It worked very well. Kanaplex is pretty easy on fish so that is the course I would have gone also.
Flashy Fins
New member
More bad news... The flasher wrasse died. Last night, I moved him to a tank with clean water and the first dose of Kanaplex. He swam very little, preferring to hide in a PVC tube. Very early this morning, I saw him almost lifeless and laying on his side, breathing rapidly. He looked near death, but I wasn't able to check on him again until about 5pm, when I found him dead.
I don't know how useful it is to examine the colors of a dead fish, especially not knowing how long ago it died, but he had normal coloring on one side, while the other side showed his flashing colors, along with a white patch near his gills that wasn't there the last time I saw him alive. Not sure what to make of it, if anything. It did not look like brook, and he had no other spots or discoloration. I suspect bacterial infection combined with way too much stress in a short time.
The red dragonet is the one fish I'm left with now. He doesn't move around a lot, but he does seem to be doing better than before. I dipped him properly yesterday, using 1 teaspoon of QC in 1 gallon of his water, for 30 minutes. He bobbed up a few times for air, but nothing too frantic. I also moved him to clean water with Kanaplex. I have tried to feed, but it's not going well. He won't move to catch any food, and he only eats one bite when it's in front of his face. I ordered bottles of pods from Live Aquaria, but even with expedited shipping, they won't get here till Tuesday. In the main tank, he did like other foods, so I will keep trying.
I don't know how useful it is to examine the colors of a dead fish, especially not knowing how long ago it died, but he had normal coloring on one side, while the other side showed his flashing colors, along with a white patch near his gills that wasn't there the last time I saw him alive. Not sure what to make of it, if anything. It did not look like brook, and he had no other spots or discoloration. I suspect bacterial infection combined with way too much stress in a short time.
The red dragonet is the one fish I'm left with now. He doesn't move around a lot, but he does seem to be doing better than before. I dipped him properly yesterday, using 1 teaspoon of QC in 1 gallon of his water, for 30 minutes. He bobbed up a few times for air, but nothing too frantic. I also moved him to clean water with Kanaplex. I have tried to feed, but it's not going well. He won't move to catch any food, and he only eats one bite when it's in front of his face. I ordered bottles of pods from Live Aquaria, but even with expedited shipping, they won't get here till Tuesday. In the main tank, he did like other foods, so I will keep trying.
Newsmyrna80
Active member
Sorry about the flasher. He may not have contracted brook so there could have been other problems at work. Can you get either a piece of live rock or chaeto from an LFS that has pods to feed the dragonet? Do any of the LFSs sell bottled pods?
Flashy Fins
New member
I might be able to find tigger pods, but definitely not tisbe from a local source. I remember asking everywhere when I started my cultures, and I had no choice but to order online. Bottled pods are not sold in stores here, except the occasional tigger pod bottle. Even then, that is not easy to find, and I can't imagine him chasing down a tigger pod when he is barely moving around in the QT.
If I got chaeto or live rock from a store, wouldn't I be risking disease all over again? I have plenty of pods myself, but the possibly contaminated water has kept me from using them to feed him. Do you think the store risk is lower? I guess I assume all stores have disease in their tanks after going through all this.
I'm going to try live baby brine as soon as they hatch. I'm hoping the movement will entice him. He did eat other foods in the display tank, but his behavior is much different in QT. He doesn't move around and isn't interested in much. I'm sure it's the stress. He is alert and his colors are normal (white patches have disappeared), but he just sits in one spot for hours at a time, then moves to another spot to sit there for the next several hours.
If I got chaeto or live rock from a store, wouldn't I be risking disease all over again? I have plenty of pods myself, but the possibly contaminated water has kept me from using them to feed him. Do you think the store risk is lower? I guess I assume all stores have disease in their tanks after going through all this.
I'm going to try live baby brine as soon as they hatch. I'm hoping the movement will entice him. He did eat other foods in the display tank, but his behavior is much different in QT. He doesn't move around and isn't interested in much. I'm sure it's the stress. He is alert and his colors are normal (white patches have disappeared), but he just sits in one spot for hours at a time, then moves to another spot to sit there for the next several hours.
Newsmyrna80
Active member
You have to weigh the risk of disease vs risk of death from starvation. Since you will have to leave the tank fallow for 8 weeks the dragonet will have to be in the QT for that long. When mine was in the QT he didn't move a lot either but I think it was due to ammonia. As far as the tiger pods you could try squirting them into a little jar. That kind of keeps them corralled. Do you have access to any reefer clubs in your area? Maybe a member could help you out with rock or chaeto. Hopefully the live brine will get him eating. After my two incidences with having to quarantine my mandarin I basically set up an external refugium to cultivate pods. A 5 gallon bucket, clamp on light, chaeto, live rock rubble and an air stone...viola a clean pod source in the very unlikely event something gets into the main.
Flashy Fins
New member
Update on the fish. He has had 4 Quick Cure dips (the first done improperly with freshwater and 1.5 teaspoons of QC, the second with saltwater and 1 teaspoon of QC, the third and fourth with only 1/2 teaspoon of QC), skipping a day in between each dip. I plan to do one more with 1 teaspoon of QC (the drop to 1/2 teaspoon was accidental; I mistakenly thought I was using a 1 tsp measuring spoon), just to be sure. He has mostly returned to normal color, but doesn't look as vibrant as he once did.
I have been placing him in new tank water every 2 days (coinciding with the dips), and I've been dosing Kanaplex with each tank transfer, since it's meant to be dosed every 2 days. I just added the 3rd dose last night, which is the max listed in the directions. I thought about doing one more, but I will likely not, since I need to focus on getting him to eat. He does not have an appetite. I have fresh bottles of pods now, but he is not interested. Yesterday, I saw him eat a couple of bites of fish eggs, then he ignored the rest of the food, including the pods. The biggest problem is that he does not move from where he is sitting, but even pods in front of his face do not get his attention the way they should. Brine shrimp eggs amounted to nothing. I've hatched them easily in the past, so I guess I had a bad batch. I bought those online and haven't found any locally, so I'm ordering more.
I do have some local reef club friends and will get chaeto from one of them to start up new pod cultures. I can't believe I have several pod cultures and no pods to feed, but that is my fault for using old tank water in the jugs. New cultures will have new water, no contamination from the main tank ever.
Thank you for all your help, Newsmyrna80. I will report if anything major changes and whether or not the fish makes it. Fingers crossed that he does. I'm going to leave my tank fallow for at least 8 weeks, preferably 12 if the dragonet isn't starving to death by then. If he doesn't make it, I'll definitely go 12 weeks fallow. QT on everything from here on out!
I have been placing him in new tank water every 2 days (coinciding with the dips), and I've been dosing Kanaplex with each tank transfer, since it's meant to be dosed every 2 days. I just added the 3rd dose last night, which is the max listed in the directions. I thought about doing one more, but I will likely not, since I need to focus on getting him to eat. He does not have an appetite. I have fresh bottles of pods now, but he is not interested. Yesterday, I saw him eat a couple of bites of fish eggs, then he ignored the rest of the food, including the pods. The biggest problem is that he does not move from where he is sitting, but even pods in front of his face do not get his attention the way they should. Brine shrimp eggs amounted to nothing. I've hatched them easily in the past, so I guess I had a bad batch. I bought those online and haven't found any locally, so I'm ordering more.
I do have some local reef club friends and will get chaeto from one of them to start up new pod cultures. I can't believe I have several pod cultures and no pods to feed, but that is my fault for using old tank water in the jugs. New cultures will have new water, no contamination from the main tank ever.
Thank you for all your help, Newsmyrna80. I will report if anything major changes and whether or not the fish makes it. Fingers crossed that he does. I'm going to leave my tank fallow for at least 8 weeks, preferably 12 if the dragonet isn't starving to death by then. If he doesn't make it, I'll definitely go 12 weeks fallow. QT on everything from here on out!
Newsmyrna80
Active member
If this is brook 8 weeks fallow is sufficient. I hope you get the little guy eating very soon. Keep trying...you never know when he's turning the corner and he'll be hungry.
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