Fluval LED vs. Panorama LED

[Asbury030]

Im debating between these 2 for my 20 gallon High. Which would you guys recommend?

Panorama
Dimensions: 22.75" x 1.75" x 1"
Total Watts: 25
Total Number LEDs: 20
12,000K White LEDs: 12
445nm Blue LEDs: 8
Input Voltage: 24V
Cable Length: 36"

Fluval
Size adjustment: 61 cm - 85 cm (24 in - 34 in)
Number of LEDs: 312
Wattage: 25W
Lumens: 1115 LM
Lux: 2627
CRI: 25000K
Lifetime Hours: 50,000
Provides 120 degree light dispersion.

 

[evolutionZ]

Dont think both are of any good. you'll be better of with a razor 120w or even just 2 par38s.

 

[wii64brawl]

I have a panorama. Fairly strong. Way better than the fluval. I like it a lot.

 

[Asbury030]

What makes the fluval so crappy?

 

[wii64brawl]

They have a bunch of 0.08w LEDs vs 1.25w LEDs which are stronger.

 

[vette.tech]

Depends on what you want to keep

 

[dkeller_nc]

Neither.

Based on your profile, I'd guess this isn't your first tank, so I'm also guessing that you currently have a T5HO over it, or perhaps a PC unit.

Many aquarists have noted issues with various corals using blue/white only LED fixtures. Better success has been reported with wide-spectrum LED fixtures and LED/T5HO combinations.

Over a tank of this size, neither the Fluval nor the Ecoxotic fixture will provide sufficient lighting for high-light-demand corals, though it will probably be enough for soft corals and some LPS. That's in addition to the spectrum problem.

So you are likely going to need at least 2 of these fixtures, and at that price point you may be better off considering something like the AI Hydra + controller. It's broad-spectrum, efficient, and high output.

There's another issue, though. All modular LED fixtures are close to point-source lights. That tends to create shadows in the tank that causes problems. In that respect, the strip-light type of LED fixtures have an advantage. But if it were my tank, I would rather have a couple of BuildMyLED fixtures plus a controller than the Fluval/Ecoxotic fixtures because you can buy the BML fixtures as broad-spectrum.

 

[Asbury030]

I appreciate all the info guys... Thank you! I'd just really like something strong enough to house an anemone and I know that requires something a little on the strong side.

 

[Asbury030]

Would I be better off getting a nice T5 fixture?

 

[chrisfont23]

I have no problem keeping LPS or SPS under Panorama Pros. If anything, they are too bright. Get a dimmer.

 

[dkeller_nc]

Well, fluorescents are bullet-proof as far as being able to grow anything under them as long as there's enough tubes over the water surface. They also aren't point-sources, so evenly lighting a tank is a no brainer.

However, if you want high light levels you will want at least 4 tubes over your 20 high, and possibly 6 tubes. That will generate an appreciable amount of heat. If the tank setup is designed so that there is no hood and the fixture either sets on the tank rim or is hung from the ceiling or light stand, the heat probably won't matter - most of the heat will be vented up and away from the aquarium.

If your setup has a hood, then you're going to need to have some sort of forced-ventilation setup to get the heat away from the tank. Small tanks like 20H have both advantages and disadvantages when it comes to heat management (I have a 20H reef, btw). Because of the high surface area to volume ratio, they lose a lot more heat to the environment relative to tank size than a larger tank. But, since the volume of water is small, they can also heat up considerably faster than a large tank if there's interruption to the room air conditioning and/or hood fans.

By the way - I don't mean to imply that LEDs aren't appropriate for your setup. Full spectrum LEDs, in particular, work very well (I have 2 AI Vegas over a 50g cube), they are very energy efficient, and put out very little heat. My current lighting setup for my 20 gal is power compact retrofits inside a hood. Sometime within the next year or two I will be removing the hood and putting in LED lighting. Roughly speaking, I intend to put a fixture or fixture that will consume about 100 watts running flat-out, with the intent of running the set-up at about 50-70% full power.

 

[Asbury030]

I would like to go led if I could but I'm running on a College budget right now haha but I am running no lid just a glass cover that's it

 

[Asbury030]

What you guys think about the Coralife Lunar Aqualight HO T5? I think 96 watts should be plenty.

 

[dkeller_nc]

A 4-bulb T5 HO fixture will be more than enough for soft corals and LPS. SPS may require you to place them within 4 or 5 inches of the water's surface.

By way of reference, my 20 g nano is currently lit with 2 65-watt PC bulbs, for a total of 130 watts. I used to have 3 PC 65w bulbs over the tank, which was too much for SPS placed high in the tank. With the 130w setup I now have, there's enough light at the sand for LPS, though SPS requires high placement as noted.

As for fixtures, many of us don't think too much of Coralife. Just this weekend I was taking apart a Coralife aqualight PC fixture with a fried ballast that I'd had in operation for a little more than a year. Unfortunately, Coralife wants so much for a replacement ballast that it's not worth repairing the fixture.

 

[ganjero]

A 4-bulb T5 HO fixture will be more than enough for soft corals and LPS. SPS may require you to place them within 4 or 5 inches of the water's surface.

By way of reference, my 20 g nano is currently lit with 2 65-watt PC bulbs, for a total of 130 watts. I used to have 3 PC 65w bulbs over the tank, which was too much for SPS placed high in the tank. With the 130w setup I now have, there's enough light at the sand for LPS, though SPS requires high placement as noted.

As for fixtures, many of us don't think too much of Coralife. Just this weekend I was taking apart a Coralife aqualight PC fixture with a fried ballast that I'd had in operation for a little more than a year. Unfortunately, Coralife wants so much for a replacement ballast that it's not worth repairing the fixture.

PC lighting is completely different and lot weaker.

96watts of HO T5s over a 20g will allow to keep anything you want anywhere, Anemones, Clams and any SPS included.

I agree the fixture is not what I would choose but it can work, make sure you use good bulbs ( ATI, Giesseman, UVL) no the low end coralife bulbs

As for the Panorama vs Fluval, there is no doubt panoramas are way better but you need at least 3 for your tank. I would you chose the T5s over the panoramas though.

 

[Asbury030]

Yeah I think I have decided to go the T5 route... I really appreciate all the help from you guys. Always a big help with any questions or issues i have.

 

[Michigan Mike]

4x24w T5HO like ATI, AQUATICLIFE,TEK (ATI,KZ,GIESSEMAN bulbs)

150w HQI (Phoenix 14k or radium bulbs)

Either of these are perfect IME. I'm sure there are great LEDs also but the above 4x24 t5HO or 150w halide is perfect on a 20H. I've been using them over 29g tanks just fine.

 

[dkeller_nc]

PC lighting is completely different and lot weaker.

I'm afraid this is objectively false, though it is a common misperception that is often repeated on the internet boards.

T5HO is approximately 3% more efficient per watt than Power Compact bulbs in white spectrums (about 72 lumens/watt for T5HO vs about 69 lumesn/watt for PC). In blue spectrums, the per-watt efficiency is nearly identical.

In all other respects, PC and T5HOs are equivalent, so yeah, you can get a pretty good idea of how much wattage you need when switching between the two.

Note that this not true of LEDs - they vary greatly in luminous efficiency, but the minimum is at least 100 lumens per watt. Moreover, the light is a point source and is highly directional. So it's not really possible to estimate the wattage for LEDs from a "watt per gallon" rule of thumb like one could for MH and high-output fluorescents.

 

[dkeller_nc]

Yeah I think I have decided to go the T5 route... I really appreciate all the help from you guys. Always a big help with any questions or issues i have.

I would strongly recommend that you purchase a 6-bulb T5HO fixture. The cost differential between a 4-bulb and a 6-bulb T5HO Aquatic Life unit (full featured, with Lunar LEDs and integrated timer) is $234 vs. $311, or $77. The price differential is even less if you choose a utility fixture without integrated timers/dimmers or LEDs. That's less than one complete change of bulbs, and you can run the fixture with 4 bulbs if you choose.

It will then be easy to add more light if you decide you wish to keep high-light intensity species like Acropora and do not want to be limited to the top 5" of your tank. But if you go with the 4-bulb fixture, you will have to buy another fixture if you need it.

 

[ganjero]

I'm afraid this is objectively false, though it is a common misperception that is often repeated on the internet boards.

T5HO is approximately 3% more efficient per watt than Power Compact bulbs in white spectrums (about 72 lumens/watt for T5HO vs about 69 lumesn/watt for PC). In blue spectrums, the per-watt efficiency is nearly identical.

In all other respects, PC and T5HOs are equivalent, so yeah, you can get a pretty good idea of how much wattage you need when switching between the two.

Note that this not true of LEDs - they vary greatly in luminous efficiency, but the minimum is at least 100 lumens per watt. Moreover, the light is a point source and is highly directional. So it's not really possible to estimate the wattage for LEDs from a "watt per gallon" rule of thumb like one could for MH and high-output fluorescents.

With all due respect, you are using lumens as a reference, which is a bad unit of measurement for this application ( lumen: amount of visible light to the human eye).

Research, PAR and PUR measurements and experience have shown that PC lighting is a lot weaker in many ways for use in this application. One of the main advantages is the use of individual reflectors for T5s, and yes it matters a lot because you can put more PAR in the tank with less wattage, making PC technology a lot weaker when you look at the big picture.

You can grow SPS with PC, but like you said at the very top and the colors are usually not as nice. T5s with individual reflectors and less wattage will allow you to grow SPS at higher depths and with better colors.

I'm sorry to disagree but these are proven facts in this hobby. A 4 bulb fixture with individual reflectors (even if they are contoured) is more than enough to grow anything anywhere in a standard 20 gallon tank.