Frag Collecting Only

[thebanker]

In this age of trying to establish more responsible collection practices, could there be a global standard in place for only collecting frags of a certain mass, size, or weight? And I do mean frags, not basketball sized colonies.

Maybe collecting this way could help preserve the physical structures of the reef and do less damage to long-standing colonies.

Just a thought... and I can't be the only one whose suggested this.

 

[bbalak]

Given the current cost of corals, I can ONLY afford frags. I take a lot of pride in growing what started out as a .5 - 1 inch SPS frag into a beautiful mother colony - that I usually frag again and trade for other frags. Sure, it may take a year or so for that to happen, but pride is worth the time

 

[fish_dave]

This is a good example of someone posting of what their Perception is of how Aquarium Corals are collected. The truth is that most all Aquarium Corals collected are frags or if not then they are small recently started colonies. 99% of the corals on the reef are way too large for collection. Collecting aquarium corals does no visible damage / change to the reef. If you were taken to a reef where aquarium coral collecting takes place you would not be able to pick out what or from where the corals were collected. It is just too small of an impact.

A good storm frags huge numbers of corals, most all of the SPS corals that are collected are frags from storm events. The few that are not are very small colonies no where near the size of the huge colonies that actually make up the physical structure of the reef. To say that Aquarium coral collecting changes the physical structure of the reef is just not accurate, it is a perception but not true.

 

[mthomp]

My new tank will have nothing but frags i collect from other local reefers. I like to keep the hobby with the hobbiest not the retailer.

 

[fish_dave]

Keeping the hobby with the hobbyist and cutting the retailer out of the equation will be the death of the hobby. Without a trade built around the hobby there will come a time that there will be no more hobby. A case of misguided hobbyists killing their own hobby.

 

[mthomp]

the retailer will still make his end with fish and equipment. but i see no reason to buy coral from a retailer when there is so much available from other hobbiest.

 

[thebanker]

This is a good example of someone posting of what their Perception is of how Aquarium Corals are collected. The truth is that most all Aquarium Corals collected are frags or if not then they are small recently started colonies. 99% of the corals on the reef are way too large for collection. Collecting aquarium corals does no visible damage / change to the reef. If you were taken to a reef where aquarium coral collecting takes place you would not be able to pick out what or from where the corals were collected. It is just too small of an impact.

A good storm frags huge numbers of corals, most all of the SPS corals that are collected are frags from storm events. The few that are not are very small colonies no where near the size of the huge colonies that actually make up the physical structure of the reef. To say that Aquarium coral collecting changes the physical structure of the reef is just not accurate, it is a perception but not true.

Regardless of my perception, there are colonies the size of melons being harvested. Sure, compared to a giant 300 year old faviid brain coral that's small potatoes. But thats my point, can we or should we think smaller?

Keeping the hobby with the hobbyist and cutting the retailer out of the equation will be the death of the hobby. Without a trade built around the hobby there will come a time that there will be no more hobby. A case of misguided hobbyists killing their own hobby.

I doubt that the odd hobbyist getting frags from fellow hobbyists will bring about "the death of the hobby."

 

[xlotus123x]

My new tank will have nothing but frags i collect from other local reefers. I like to keep the hobby with the hobbiest not the retailer.

I do the same and agree 100% :dance:

 

[fish_dave]

The quick answer is no we should not think smaller unless you want a small coral. If what you want are small corals then by all means that is what you should get but don't do it with the misguided idea that you are doing anything at all to save the reef. The coral that is collected for the aquarium trade has no impact on wild reefs. Even the very few melon sized corals that are collected are quickly replaced on the reef. These are not old corals. The fact is that buying wild collected corals most likely does more to save the reefs than keeping domestically grown coral frags could possibly do.

And I agree, the odd hobbyist getting frags from a swap is not going to cause the death of the hobby but when all reef keepers do actually stock 100% of their tank animals with frags from other hobbyists it will lead eventually to the death of the hobby. Most people are not impressed enough by little frags to want to start in the Hobby.

 

[vwtanker]

Just look a all the stores out of business in the last 15 years. When I was a kid, before internet shopping, I'd get my parents to take me to 5-6 shops in our town. Now there are 2. This is a hobby on the decline.

Buying wild harvested corals, which are regulated, helps sustain indigenous populations. When they make there living, caring, maintaining and harvesting reefs, people are more likely to protect them. Otherwise they subsistence fish and cut down rain forests and fill in marsh lands for farming. Not to mention fertilizer and animal waste runoff. The reefs need these filters found on land for survival.

Two good examples. We have killed the everglades, the reefs in the keys are not even close to what they used to be. Removing marshland and farming in Australia has increased nutrient levels in the great barrier reef which directly corresponds to crown of thorns starfish outbreaks.

We need to support sustainable harvest and macroculture in the pacific, this may be the only way to get the indigenous people to care for the natural reef habitat, instead of destroying it like we have.

 

[coralnut99]

This is a good example of someone posting of what their Perception is of how Aquarium Corals are collected. The truth is that most all Aquarium Corals collected are frags or if not then they are small recently started colonies. 99% of the corals on the reef are way too large for collection. Collecting aquarium corals does no visible damage / change to the reef. If you were taken to a reef where aquarium coral collecting takes place you would not be able to pick out what or from where the corals were collected. It is just too small of an impact.

A good storm frags huge numbers of corals, most all of the SPS corals that are collected are frags from storm events. The few that are not are very small colonies no where near the size of the huge colonies that actually make up the physical structure of the reef. To say that Aquarium coral collecting changes the physical structure of the reef is just not accurate, it is a perception but not true.

Well put. The key word is perception.

One key element has changed what we see in the way of wild colonies. Shipping costs. I've been at this for a good number of years, and I can tell you there was never a basketball size colony available of anything, and what is now sold as colonies would have sold as frags at one time. It's just too expensive to pack and ship big corals anymore and the hobby has embraced frags and maricultured corals very well.

 

[Mr.Maska]

if u start with a small frag i think the chances of success longterm are beter.

 

[jeff@zina.com]

But thats my point, can we or should we think smaller?

What's the incentive? I'm down there collecting corals. I can collect 1-2" size pieces or a 12" piece. Same cost to me, same effort, bigger payday. Okay, I may be out of the collection business in a decade because there's nothing left, but I have kids that are hungry today. Why would I collect smaller pieces?

Jeff

 

[thebanker]

Listen, I'm not trying to say that anyone's kids should go hungry, or a hardworking guy like you should be out of a job.

At this point, there is no incentive. I really started this thread only for a philosophical discussion, not necessarily a practical one. I don't collect corals, so I don't know what it's like in the "trenches" for collectors.

 

[chimmike]

In this age of trying to establish more responsible collection practices, could there be a global standard in place for only collecting frags of a certain mass, size, or weight?

Hah, really? And who's going to enforce this? Interpol? Those countries' Coast Guards? Or maybe the same enforcers that make sure collecting companies don't force their divers to do multiple deep dives in a day ( a totally unsafe manner)

Not to pee on your campfire, but as stated above, I've never seen a collected colony or basketball sized piece of anything, and you can establish all the global standards you want, but if you don't have strict enforcement and a strong willingness to comply by all parties worldwide, you're wasting oxgen even talking about it.

 

[thebanker]

I'm not trying to come up with some laughable, ridiculous concept. When you have snorkel bob and other nefarious "villains" to the hobby drawing the mass public's attention to his perceived negatives of saltwater fishkeeping, if we don't talk about stuff like this then who will? The people who aren't in the hobby, that's who.

chimmike - Not to pee on your campfire either, but I don't think that anyone's wasting any oxygen talking about responsible collection practices. I'm not a collector, nor do I make a living in the aquarium industry. I'm just trying to stimulate discussion around how coral is removed from the ocean.

 

[Bananafish]

bigger payday

Not as "unrelated" as it seems... In the supermarkets across America, there are hundreds, if not thousands of BILLIONS of sardines in cans that nobody ever buys. Those sardines have been canned and sold by companies who already have been paid. They don't care the sardines will never be sold by the markets or eaten by the people who shop there.

Those untold numbers of sardines could have fed a starving ocean of other fish and mammals. This is why the oceans are dying: "bigger payday" for one person or another, and nobody seems to care where it counts.

 

[T Diddy]

Thanks for the post Banker. A hobby will never die as long as there are hobbyists. As for the idea of sustainable collection practices, people would likely pay more for corals knowing that special care was taken in their harvest/production...ever heard of organic produce/meats or free range chicken and so on? The difference boils down to marketing.

 

[jeff@zina.com]

This is why the oceans are dying: "bigger payday" for one person or another, and nobody seems to care where it counts.

I'd argue that everybody cares where it really counts - their pocketbook. The government changes fishing regulations and commercial fishermen are the ones who take the economic hit.

The Whale Warriors are perfectly willing to spend millions attacking Japanese whaling ships, but don't seem willing to pay the men working those ships a decent salary to not work on them. Sustainable aquaculture is already a major practice in many parts of the world. But it doesn't happen based on the guy buying corals at the LFS.

Jeff

 

[Bananafish]

Agreed, Jeff, but there will always be people digging up the reef to find something new. Once something is in the market, someone will buy it, and there's a reason to continue to supply it. This means, sadly, that aquaculture will always be viewed as a failed venture. On the upswing, there has been a renewed interest in aquaria and a little explosion in reef keeping in the last 5 years. Maybe a fresh awareness will help, or maybe we'll just get different patterns on our tattooed Mollies.