Frags turned brown after introduction to tank, no polyp extension

[anen]

I have a 6 month old 40 breeder tank that I recently introduced my first acro frags to. My setup is as follows:

40 breeder
29g sump w chaeto fuge
SWC 120 Cone skimmer
sunpower 4x39
250ml Biopellets
GFO and GAC
3 fish ATM, 1 clown, 2 clown gobys

I purchased 6 fresh cut acro and milli frags from a local reefer with DIY strong LED lighting.

I first drip acclimated these in a bucket together for about 20 mins. Then I dipped them in coral revive one at a time. During the process of taking them out of the bucket, the motion of my hand caused them to touch each other briefly. After dipping I used IC gel to glue them on my rockwork.

One milli has very good polyp extension, while the others have little to no polyp extension. It appears that only the upper tips of some have PE while the other polyps do not extend. Also the majority have turned brown.

I would like to know why this happened and how I can improve their condition.
I suspect two reasons that I would like to get an opinion on.
1) The touching of the frags during the acclimation process. (If it was very brief, like 2-5 seconds, can this have an adverse impact?)
2) While I was gluing them, I had ic gel all over my hands, and i'm concerned that through handling, I was not careful and could have transferred gel into the polyps or affected the tissue somehow.

From what I have read the browning of corals is due to stress, most likely from excess nutrients.
However, my nitrates are at 0 confirmed by two test kits, and my phosphates are reading 0 as well.

Any advice?

 

[bigned]

I am the furthest thing from an expert but how long has it been since you added them? If only a few days id guess they will take some time to color back up due to the stress of adding them to a new system and may need to get used to your tank.

 

[anen]

Yes it has been 3-4 days now. So does browning upon initial acclimation not necessarily mean my nutrient level is high? Now can initial stress from introduction to a new system also cause polyps not to extend as well? When should I start to worry?

 

[iap]

Prolly need to get used to your lights since they came from strong led to a smaller 4 bulb t5 setup.

 

[anen]

iap, are you referring to the browning or the lack of polyp extension?

 

[iap]

The browning. And the lack of pe is normal no matter what. Some frags yay I put in my sytem immediately shows polyps and some they don't for a while.

 

[bigned]

He is probably right...i added an spa frag to my tank a while back which browned out and had no pe...after upgrading to quality bulbs that put out more par it colored back up and pe returned. Could definitely be the lightng

 

[stevedola]

what are your

Mag, Calcium, Alk readings?

Ive never heard of lack of light browning tips after 3 days. IME lack of light takes a while to show. However Ive seen first hand what high ALK can do to SPS.

 

[anen]

The thing is they browned right after the dip and placement in the tank, before the lights even came on so not sure if it was the lighting. If it was a gradual fade to brown over a longer period of time it would be logical, but in this case do you still think so?

He is probably right...i added an spa frag to my tank a while back which browned out and had no pe...after upgrading to quality bulbs that put out more par it colored back up and pe returned. Could definitely be the lightng

 

[anen]

Mag- 1350
Cal-around 400
Alk 9-10

These are guesses since I last tested three days ago

The guy I bought them from said his alk was around 9

Also, it's not just the tips, its the entire frag

what are your

Mag, Calcium, Alk readings?

Ive never heard of lack of light browning tips after 3 days. IME lack of light takes a while to show. However Ive seen first hand what high ALK can do to SPS.

 

[bigned]

You are probably right, since they browned out so quickly its not likely the lights caused it

 

[daks]

Polyp extension (or lack of) is nothing to worry about for a few weeks to a month for some new corals being added to a tank. The tips having PE is a good sign though that there is nothing drastic that will wipe out your corals overnight. BUT keep on eye o the bottom of the coral for tissue loss / recession.

Most common cause of rapid browning is excess nutrients, Nitrates and Phosphates. Even when they are not detectable on the standard home test kits, they are too high. To more accurately measure phosphate and such look at the Hanna optical meters if you really want to track your phos and etc values. (Personally I just look at my corals by eye).

When it is a light issue (too much) the coral will fade in color. Sometimes a LARGE increase in par rating from the lights will brown them up a bit too. (sudden lighting changes).

Polyps will also not extend (after a few day or weeks acclimatising time) if the flow around the coral is either too much, too little and sometimes if it is not turbulent enough.

A lot of sps corals will "slime" when really stressed. Sounds like your safe there.

+1 on your calc and alk values
PH? Sg? and something to occasionally check; Mg?

 

[daks]

You are probably right, since they browned out so quickly its not likely the lights caused it

When it's something to do with the lights I gen notice that to color change(s) are not even on the coral in question.

Consistent and dark browning is almost always higher than optimum nutrients in the water. I've noticed that even the best of the "drop" testing kits don't detect the small amounts of Nitrates and Phosphates that will brown up some sps corals. Could even be high amino acids or other organic compound in the water.

How often do you clean your front glass? How old is your GAC and GFO?

Sometimes Biopellets when they are missing either Phosphates or Nitrates can't process enough (i.e. GFO eliminated all the phos so the bacteria can't eat all the Nitrates as they need the Carbon, Phosphate, trace elements along with the Carbon from the pellets to make the type of food "sandwich" that they like).

 

[anen]

In the event that there is tissue loss/recession, what is the prognosis? That the frag is dying? From my readings here, is the proper protocol to cut off the dead part? On a related note, is leaving a dead/dying frag in the tank harmful?

I have a hanna phosphate meter I just bought I need to try it out. Out of the 6 frags I bought I glued them all in the same general area, the left 1/3 of the tank, closest to a mp10 (on a 40 breeder tank). The flow is currently at about 30-40%, is that too low? Out of all the frags, all have very little pe except a milli that has crazy extension.

When you said +1 on water parameters were you asking me what they were?
They are as follows:
Mag- 1350
Cal-around 400
Alk 9-10

ph fluctuates between 8.0(night) and 8.3(day)

When I put them in the tank, there were some very thin strings of stuff coming out of the polyps, I'd say 3 out of the 6 frags had maybe one or two of those strings. Woudl this inidicate severe stress?

I have a crappy refractometer need to buy a new one, I can't get it in focus, but it looks like somewhere around 1.026-1.027... When i mix my saltwater I double check with a hydrometer that I mix to 1.026

Polyp extension (or lack of) is nothing to worry about for a few weeks to a month for some new corals being added to a tank. The tips having PE is a good sign though that there is nothing drastic that will wipe out your corals overnight. BUT keep on eye o the bottom of the coral for tissue loss / recession.

Most common cause of rapid browning is excess nutrients, Nitrates and Phosphates. Even when they are not detectable on the standard home test kits, they are too high. To more accurately measure phosphate and such look at the Hanna optical meters if you really want to track your phos and etc values. (Personally I just look at my corals by eye).

When it is a light issue (too much) the coral will fade in color. Sometimes a LARGE increase in par rating from the lights will brown them up a bit too. (sudden lighting changes).

Polyps will also not extend (after a few day or weeks acclimatising time) if the flow around the coral is either too much, too little and sometimes if it is not turbulent enough.

A lot of sps corals will "slime" when really stressed. Sounds like your safe there.

+1 on your calc and alk values
PH? Sg? and something to occasionally check; Mg?

 

[anen]

I clean my front glass every 3-4 days or so. I last changed my GAC like a month ago, the GFO I haven't changed for about 2 months. I have both about in separate TLF 150 reactors about 1/3 full.

I started with biopellets only, but I was getting a bad hair algae problem that persisted for 3 months. Then I proceeded to add gfo and chaeto together. The hair algae went away but I got a cyano bloom that eventually also went away. The chaeto exploded, doubling in size every couple days. Now it has completely filled my refugium. I don't notice it withering away either, I just get little spots of brown, maybe a 1/2 inch long on some strands.

When it's something to do with the lights I gen notice that to color change(s) are not even on the coral in question.

Consistent and dark browning is almost always higher than optimum nutrients in the water. I've noticed that even the best of the "drop" testing kits don't detect the small amounts of Nitrates and Phosphates that will brown up some sps corals. Could even be high amino acids or other organic compound in the water.

How often do you clean your front glass? How old is your GAC and GFO?

Sometimes Biopellets when they are missing either Phosphates or Nitrates can't process enough (i.e. GFO eliminated all the phos so the bacteria can't eat all the Nitrates as they need the Carbon, Phosphate, trace elements along with the Carbon from the pellets to make the type of food "sandwich" that they like).

 

[daks]

The chaeto still growing well confirms that you have a high nutrient situation on your tank. It's probably doing most of the work atm, if it's filled up your fuge you should thin it out a little bit so it will grow faster (it's by tossing it out, you export the nutrients) I'd also be willing to bet your GFO is exhausted. Possibly even your carbon too.

Do you have a sandbed in your tank? If you do heavy feedings they can trap a lot of crap in them that will leach into the tank for quite a while even if you reduce feedings and change GFO etc.

 

[562socal]

you should also watch out for those clown gobies. they're known to nip at sps polyps.

 

[anen]

I'm inclined to agree with you about.the chaeto. I tried to be very patient with the biopellets but after three months and still having hair algae problems I felt they just weren't going to cut it. Strange thing is I have never gotten a detectable nitrate reading on this tank. You think the chaeto could handle my nitrate load or these pellets actually doing something?

The chaeto still growing well confirms that you have a high nutrient situation on your tank. It's probably doing most of the work atm, if it's filled up your fuge you should thin it out a little bit so it will grow faster (it's by tossing it out, you export the nutrients) I'd also be willing to bet your GFO is exhausted. Possibly even your carbon too.

Do you have a sandbed in your tank? If you do heavy feedings they can trap a lot of crap in them that will leach into the tank for quite a while even if you reduce feedings and change GFO etc.

 

[wickedfish]

Gfo according to a thread I read an hour ago can get exhausted in 24 hours or a bit more when phosphates are a bit high. What do you use to measure your nitrates, I have heard that the ones that have lower readings .15 , .05 etc.. are better since like my test only goes from.15 to 0 leaves a lot of mystery. The Chaetto growing well yes you and I both have excess nutrients cause I also grow it very well. How long was th dip for does it have iodine in it. I have never browned out a coral that quick but 7 days was my record for the shortest amount of time to brown a perfectly green, purple, pink, purple frags. I replaced my ancient euro reef and added a new skimmer which seems okay, and feed alot less like 1/2 and all frags I put in now stay the same. But the biggest factor is stability in alk, mag, and calcium. my sways are in calcium 450-380 when dont test when testing 420-480 alk7.5-9.5 when testing daily 8.5-9.5 magnesium 1500-1320 when testing daily 1400-1320. I like to keep the Mag high because the others seem to stick and not vary too much. A sps reefer told me the only thing he tests daily is alkalinity after I bought 6 frags I started this routine even on w/c days and before I introduce new specimens to know what the frags are going in to that way if something like what you are saying should not happen if all is in balance. I have yet to have a pure 0 reading on phosphate but I have a feeling my source of r/o water has a tiny bit of phosphates. Any who check your r/o water test that first. Maybe if you feed a bit more than necessary cut it a percentage, it will make your sps brighten up. Dont feed your coral if you are doing that stop, I finally have PE because I dont feed the corals the frozen food I feed the fish have tiny itty bitty stuff the sps can handle so why give them more stuff. I am no expert and have only had 3 weeks of success with sps. My 8 month battle with color and pe on sps has been all up hill, but thanks to steadier parameters and less food the coral I have are making a come back and the new stuff is the same or better than the day they made it into my display. GL

 

[anen]

I will change out my gfo and carbon this weekend. I have a hanna phosphate meter that I haven't took out of the packaging yet, I'll try to get a reading off of it. I'll also trim my chaeto out. Good tip on the ro, I need to check that too.
Thanks dude

Gfo according to a thread I read an hour ago can get exhausted in 24 hours or a bit more when phosphates are a bit high. What do you use to measure your nitrates, I have heard that the ones that have lower readings .15 , .05 etc.. are better since like my test only goes from.15 to 0 leaves a lot of mystery. The Chaetto growing well yes you and I both have excess nutrients cause I also grow it very well. How long was th dip for does it have iodine in it. I have never browned out a coral that quick but 7 days was my record for the shortest amount of time to brown a perfectly green, purple, pink, purple frags. I replaced my ancient euro reef and added a new skimmer which seems okay, and feed alot less like 1/2 and all frags I put in now stay the same. But the biggest factor is stability in alk, mag, and calcium. my sways are in calcium 450-380 when dont test when testing 420-480 alk7.5-9.5 when testing daily 8.5-9.5 magnesium 1500-1320 when testing daily 1400-1320. I like to keep the Mag high because the others seem to stick and not vary too much. A sps reefer told me the only thing he tests daily is alkalinity after I bought 6 frags I started this routine even on w/c days and before I introduce new specimens to know what the frags are going in to that way if something like what you are saying should not happen if all is in balance. I have yet to have a pure 0 reading on phosphate but I have a feeling my source of r/o water has a tiny bit of phosphates. Any who check your r/o water test that first. Maybe if you feed a bit more than necessary cut it a percentage, it will make your sps brighten up. Dont feed your coral if you are doing that stop, I finally have PE because I dont feed the corals the frozen food I feed the fish have tiny itty bitty stuff the sps can handle so why give them more stuff. I am no expert and have only had 3 weeks of success with sps. My 8 month battle with color and pe on sps has been all up hill, but thanks to steadier parameters and less food the coral I have are making a come back and the new stuff is the same or better than the day they made it into my display. GL