Frogfish question

[Cloudburst2000]

My roommate asked me to help her set up a tank in her bedroom. She's kinda gotten sucked into the hobby by associattion :lol: Anyhoo, she really wanted a frogfish. I had always thought frogfish were really cool but I never wanted to dedicate any of my own tanks to make a species only tank for a frogfish. So I was more then willing to help since it's her tank and she payed for everything. We set up a 20g aquarium with an overflow and small sump. Got some LR/sand from TBS, made sure everything was cycled, etc. We then added some soft corals from my other tanks (mainly mushrooms, toadstool, some gsp on the back wall, etc) while we were searching for a wartskin angler. After some searching, we finally located a wartskin angler and purchased it (well, she purchased it anyway). The angler has since been taught to eat frozen food. It's still fairly small...only about 1 1/2 - 2". I think max size is around 4". My roommate wants to add a bit more color to the aquarium and has been wondering about adding a couple damsels to the tank. I think the damels would probably become lunch at some point. My roommate realizes this and says it's okay if the angler eats them eventually as damsels are cheap. I do know that anglers can be overfed to death. My main worry about adding a small damsel or two to her tank is that it would cause the angler to overfeed. Do you think this would be an issue? I guess if she sees a damsel missing, she could just skip feeding the angler during that feeding time. Also, would having live damsels in the tank cause the angler to forget the training we did to convert it to frozen food? I would hate all the time we spent converting the fish to frozen to be wasted. Finally, would a damsel be too large for the angler to eat safely? I know they can eat fish pretty much equal to their own size but sometimes eating a fish too large for them can actually hurt them. She doesn't want to put damsels in the tank if it will somehow harm the angler. I don't have any previous experience with anglers so any advice is appreciated. Thanks!

 

[SecretiveFish]

I think the damels would probably become lunch at some point.
- Good instincts

My main worry about adding a small damsel or two to her tank is that it would cause the angler to overfeed. Do you think this would be an issue?
- With the size of your angler, I think one might be OK with the following caveats: you really would need to quarantine those fish so that you don't accidentally give your angler an illness like Ick (IMO it is not worth the risk), it is possible that you could give the angler internal parasites from the damsel having internal parasites and those not being cleared up in the course of quarantine, and the poor damsel will be living a life of terror (it will figure out that there is something in there trying to eat, at least that is what happened with me and chromis also why I won't do it again).

Also, would having live damsels in the tank cause the angler to forget the training we did to convert it to frozen food?
- It is possible. With the time you spent doing it, I would not risk it.

Finally, would a damsel be too large for the angler to eat safely?
- Quite possible, it depends on the size of the damsel. Again to me not worth the risk.

If you have the lighting, why not get a Deresa clam for color and some easier corals like certain leathers, polyps, and xenia (some people hate these though as they can spread like weeds)? They get used to getting walked on One of the fun things with a tank like this is that the microfauna flourishes as there is nothing to eat it. So you can see amphipods, isopods, copepods, mysid shrimp, etc.

 

[namxas]

SecretiveFish posted some great advice.

Anglers can actually eat prey LARGER than they are, and will often try to do so. IME/IMHO, if the "prey" is less than twice the size of the angler, neither the angler nor the fish in question is safe.

Sometimes damsels will get "smart" for awhile and learn what distance is safe. When this happens, they can actually drive the predator crazy trying to catch them, altho eventually the damsel will make a mistake...

You didn't mention how often you're feeding the angler, but twice a week as an adult if plenty. Small juvies like you fish can go 3x a week since they're still growing.

The reason anglers have issues with overeating is due to their super slow metabolisms. Too much/too large a prey item generally begins to decompose in the fish's GI tract before it can be digested, which generally bloats and kills the angler.

Another issue with anglers is a little understood malady known as SAD (Sudden Angler Death), where a seemingly fine specimen will begin darting around the tank, bloats, floats, and dies for no apparent reason. IME, there's no real reason or rhyme for it, but once you get a good, established fish, they tend to do fine.

HTH and be sure to post some photos.