Frogspawn dying quick, please help

[mess7777]

I picked up a frogspawn this weekend with a couple of other corals. One head already died and I am worried other's are close behind. I originally had it on the left side of the tank above the anchor coral(about halfway to the top) and that is where the head died. I then moved it to the current location. Sorry the pic is out of focus but just to show placement. Any suggestions welcomed from placement to water param.

It did open up a bit at first but now just seems unhappy.

Water param
pH - 8.4
dKH - 11 KH/GH 196.9ppm
Alk - 2.5-3.2 (hard to tell with test kit)
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 15
Ca - 580
Mg - 1200
salinity - 1.025

Couple photos for reference

 

[sh0rtcake00]

Your mag is low, I try to keep mine over 1300 and your nitrates are high.

 

[mnml]

What kind of flow is it under?

 

[mess7777]

I would say the flow is medium-low. I have a bubble coral just below it that is happy.

I actually moved the frog now to spot just above the right shelf.

low mg and high nitrates)although 15 is not THAT high is it?). But are they high enough to kill it? Why would other euplyllia corals be happy in nearly the same spot and same light from the same source?

 

[greech]

I would recheck your tests. 1200 Mg and 500+ Ca and 11dKH doesn't quite add up. Are you dosing anything?

Don;t take this the wrong way but it looks like some skeleton is showing on the bubble coral as well (I could be wrong).

Besides that euphyllia don;t like high flow.

Any pests/bugs? What's your lighting?

 

[mess7777]

I would recheck your tests. 1200 Mg and 500+ Ca and 11dKH doesn't quite add up. Are you dosing anything?

Don;t take this the wrong way but it looks like some skeleton is showing on the bubble coral as well (I could be wrong).

Besides that euphyllia don;t like high flow.

Any pests/bugs? What's your lighting?

I have dosed some calcium. Seachem Complete. supposed to raise calcium and maintain magnesium.

yes there is some skeleton showing on the bubble, but it has looked that way since day 1. is that bad thing? I have had it for a little over a week and it always looked the same

I haven't seen any pests. Running LED lighting, 6x42 watts.

 

[greech]

Unless you are doing monthly (or longer duration) water changes I don't see any reason for you to be dosing anything currently. You don't have a lot of corals and I don't see any SPS. Basically from the number/type of corals weekly 10 to 15% water changes using a good reef salt mix should be fine to replenish elements and you shouldn't need to dose very often (if at all).

Second you should not just dose calcium and calcium chloride (which is what that Seachem product is) is fairly potent. When dosing you need to consider both calcium and alkalinity together. If only one ion is dosed eventually your ionic balance will get out of whack. Also, magnesium should be maintained at about 1300ppm to help keep the balance between the two. There are a bunch of stickeys and articles in the Reef Chemistry forum you can checkout but for now I would just be focused on doing routine water changes and stop the dosing.

Just took a second to look at your main tank thread. Please don't take this wrong but a few of the corals you have added look a bit unhealthy from the onset. Do you have a good vibe for the health of the animals your LFS sells? Again, I don't mean to be disrespectful, just trying to think of all the options. While not a 100% deal breaker al the time, receding corals should be looked at closely.

The other issue is lighting. I am not sure of the exact specs on your LEDs but they sound and look quite bright. You mentioned a controller so if that mean dimmable you may want to consider that. If the corals you are getting are coming from lower lit tanks like T5's, etc, you may have too much light, too soon. Corals need to light acclimate.

Lastly don't count out pests. Look for signs of growths, bugs (not pods) or nudibranchs on them. Use a flashlight to check them at night.

Great looking tank BTW. That centerpiece rock you got is outstanding.

 

[mess7777]

Unless you are doing monthly (or longer duration) water changes I don't see any reason for you to be dosing anything currently.

Thank you, there is a lot of misinformation. I will hold on to this for down the road.

Just took a second to look at your main tank thread. Please don't take this wrong but a few of the corals you have added look a bit unhealthy from the onset. Do you have a good vibe for the health of the animals your LFS sells? Again, I don't mean to be disrespectful, just trying to think of all the options. While not a 100% deal breaker al the time, receding corals should be looked at closely.

Unfortunately, our coral selection here is less than stellar. It is expensive and not everything looks too great. I don't know which ones you are referring to, some came with the used tank that look quite horrible, others are kinda in between. The new coral photos (bubble, acan, galaxy) were taken a couple hours after introduction to the tank. For example, the bubble is completely closed. I have a small moonlight that I have on sometimes to see what's going on, I see little to no night activity. The hammer and anchor corals close tight and only open during the day.

The other issue is lighting. I am not sure of the exact specs on your LEDs but they sound and look quite bright. You mentioned a controller so if that mean dimmable you may want to consider that. If the corals you are getting are coming from lower lit tanks like T5's, etc, you may have too much light, too soon. Corals need to light acclimate.

The LFS where most of the corals are from uses the same lighting setup. Although my placement could be an issue causing more/less lighting there shouldn't be large differences. I will definitely keep this in mind though. For a newbie it is hard to know what the thing should look like when fully expanded and also how to be sure it is happy. To date, if it doesn't appear to be dying I think it's happy. This again is due to the LFS issues.

Lastly don't count out pests. Look for signs of growths, bugs (not pods) or nudibranchs on them. Use a flashlight to check them at night.

I will give this a try. Thanks a million for the advice. I believe we broke the cardinal rule of adding too much too quick. I purchases a small hammer frag and that led to getting 6 more corals within a 2 week span. I have only had the tank 2 months......and we have readjusted in between as well as adding rock, likely resulting in mini cycling.

It remains to be seen if this frogspawn will make it, tonight it seemed a little more content in the new spot, but still not like it should.

I will test my Mg again tomorrow, as it was my first time testing it, perhaps I was inaccurate as well.

It is awesome to have a site like this where information is given without having someone making money off me.

 

[greech]

You are quite welcome and I hope it helps somehow. I did mean to mention that from your thread it looks like you have moved some things around and added some rock etc which may in fact caused you to have some spikes and instability. Knowing the lighting is equivalent to what the corals were previously under helps eliminate that variable.

FWIW adding 6 corals in 2 weeks is not an issue for an established tank. Heck if I could afford it I would add that many in a day and not even sweat it at all. But the moving and the adding of rock likely didn't help if for any other reason, corals just don't like to be moved a lot. I think the biggest issue may have been the quick addition of the fish (especially the tangs). I would imagine that was quite a shock to the system.

Best of luck. Just try and keep things simple and stable for the time being.

 

[mess7777]

You are quite welcome and I hope it helps somehow. I did mean to mention that from your thread it looks like you have moved some things around and added some rock etc which may in fact caused you to have some spikes and instability. Knowing the lighting is equivalent to what the corals were previously under helps eliminate that variable.

FWIW adding 6 corals in 2 weeks is not an issue for an established tank. Heck if I could afford it I would add that many in a day and not even sweat it at all. But the moving and the adding of rock likely didn't help if for any other reason, corals just don't like to be moved a lot. I think the biggest issue may have been the quick addition of the fish (especially the tangs). I would imagine that was quite a shock to the system.

Best of luck. Just try and keep things simple and stable for the time being.

Thanks again. In any case, the tangs are out of the tank now, when they were in there things were looking pristine. Then they got ich'ed up I can't wait til they can come back and take care of the hair algae. After 2 weeks that new rock has a lot on it, obviously had some bound phosphates that are leeching out now in the better water conditions(my opinion) from the previous owner.

Unfortunatley, the frogspawn is looking even worse this morning. I doubt it will pull through. It looks like it may have the brown jelly disease. There are hanging pieces of brown dead flesh and it has lost more green buds since last evening. I can see my hermits lingering around just waiting for it to drop off little morsels of dead flesh for them to devour. I am going to talk to my LFS guy as it didn't look great in the store but he assured us it was due to placement and not a rotten coral. If it doesn't pull through this will be my first all out loss. I also will avoid buying larger corals, stick with smaller frags so losses won't hurt so much. Man I hate that.

 

[greech]

Sorry to hear. There are a number of coral dips on the market that not only help going in but also might help in situations like this.

Something to consider adding to your arsenal...

http://www.marinedepot.com/Brightwe...ts-Brightwell_Aquatics-BW01177-FIADCD-vi.html

http://www.marinedepot.com/Aqua_Vis...s-Aqua_Vision_Aquatics-QI01052-FIADCD-vi.html

 

[mess7777]

I redid my Mg test as I suspected that I did it wrong. I reread the instructions and I totally got it wrong. How I came up with a number that is close to what is considered acceptable is crazy. If I had read right it would have been like 1700, lol.

The test required 15 sec of shaking between each drop at the beginning, I missed that. Anyway, long story short, retested and Mg is 1280ppm

I also realized I didn't check phosphates, they have been consistently at 1.0ppm since I first checked. However, today they read .05ppm, I am happy to see they are settling down, maybe I won't have so much hair algae after all over the next 6 weeks.

The frogspawn heads are still not looking too hot. All 4 remaining heads have some green left, but only 1 looks like it has a fighting chance at this point. I have moved it away from other corals, and will wait it out.

 

[mess7777]

update : dead

lesson learned, don't buy something that doesn't look to great in the store.

 

[MechEng99]

Sorry to hear you lost your coral. Never fun.

I would slow down on your purchases - maybe wait until you can tell what you already have is growing. Unfortunately this hobby requires a TON of patience...that most of us don't have.

I would also wait until your nitrates come down a bit more before adding more corals. Your tank is relatively new, and you were still adding rock...so let everything calm down a bit. Bacteria takes time to settle in.

Are you using RO/DI water? What size tank is that? It really looks like your flow is maybe a bit too low (judging by relative size of powerheads to tank...and by the calmness of the water surface.)

Do you have any fish? I didn't see any - they may help cycle your tank a bit better (but start with the inexpensive ones).

As mentioned previously, water changes are probably sufficient at this point to maintain your chemical levels (10-15% weekly). Once coralline algae starts growing and your corals start taking off, then you may need to dose. Test regularly...and don't dose unless you need to.

 

[mess7777]

Sorry to hear you lost your coral. Never fun.

I would slow down on your purchases - maybe wait until you can tell what you already have is growing. Unfortunately this hobby requires a TON of patience...that most of us don't have.

I would also wait until your nitrates come down a bit more before adding more corals. Your tank is relatively new, and you were still adding rock...so let everything calm down a bit. Bacteria takes time to settle in.

Are you using RO/DI water? What size tank is that? It really looks like your flow is maybe a bit too low (judging by relative size of powerheads to tank...and by the calmness of the water surface.)

Do you have any fish? I didn't see any - they may help cycle your tank a bit better (but start with the inexpensive ones).

As mentioned previously, water changes are probably sufficient at this point to maintain your chemical levels (10-15% weekly). Once coralline algae starts growing and your corals start taking off, then you may need to dose. Test regularly...and don't dose unless you need to.

Thanks sir. I am no longer going to dose until things look low on the tests. My others corals are doing well, flourishing in fact in my opinion. They open wide, eat when offered food and just plain look good.

This frog was damaged goods, it was a goner before I got sucked in by it's crazy fluorescent greens.

The flow is 2 Koralia 4s and a maxi-jet1200 circulating water from the sump. I have trouble finding low flow places for the corals that like that.

As far as slowing down, that was the plan...until my wife came across someone shutting down their tank. She paid $70 and got another frogspawn(huge), another hammer(also huge), another one I think is aussie brain(will post a pic later in the forum for ident), and yet another frog that the guy threw in.

That was all $60, and for $10 more he gave her 4 pieces of SPS. I don't believe these will live, but if they do, great.

Crazy I know, the guy who said he would settle down. Oh well, price was right, and chances like that don't come every day. I believe my water params are pretty good, and did notice some coraline starting to grow this week too.

Wish me luck, but I definitely mean it this time when I saw that is it!!!

Oh yah the fish. I have fish, but they came down with ich. They are in QT now, and so will all future fish! Don't want to go through that again. After these corals I will likely QT them too going forward.

 

[MechEng99]

No prob...but I'm a girl.

Check out the thread on Rescue Corals in the LPS forum (it's actually my thread). Just b/c a coral is damaged at the LFS doesn't mean it isn't salvageable if you know what to do. However, I don't recommend buying damaged corals at full price b/c it can encourage irresponsible practices by the LFS (no incentive for them to even try to take care of coral if people will still buy dying coral at full price.)

You will HAVE to get those nitrates down to keep SPS. Again...what size tank is that? I have two Koralia 4's in my 55g plus a Mag 9.5 return pump for keeping SPS. The water surface should be pretty tumultuous. You should have ~30-60x turnover rate in your tank (depends on rockwork structure/corals).

 

[mess7777]

sorry maam!

I have a 110g. I guess each Koralia 4 is a little over 10x flow, with the maxijet i guess i am closer to 25x instead of over 30x.

My surface is well agitated, I am not sure why it doesn't show in that video. I guess I will need to look at adding at least 1 more in order to beef up the flow. I am a little worried my now largely LPS corals won't like that.

My nitrates have been going down each test. they were originally around 100 and I now have it down to 15. each water change it gets a little better.

In all honesty I do not believe it's ready for SPS but the guy pretty much begged my wife to take them so he could the thing shut down(he needs to sell everything to tear the tank down and then move out on his gf....kind of sad for them i know). So I have some, but am not expecting big thigns!

update - just did another nitrate test, it now shows that I am at 10 or even a little lower. Going the right way anyway!

 

[MechEng99]

Your LPS should be fine...as long as no powerheads point directly at them. Just have the Koralia's pointing around the top half of the tank. They'll pull water up rather than blow, so it'll be more gentle. Place your LPS in the lower half of the tank and SPS in the top half...you'll probably be pretty good. If you're coming from freshwater, saltwater aquariums require a TON of flow. Just think about the ocean currents.

Glad to hear the nitrates are coming down! For SPS, my goal is always to have the polyps blowing gently around like leaves on a tree in a light breeze. They shake, move back and forth, and overall remain pretty full. If they're flat against the coral, the flow is too much and you'll rip the tissue off.