frustrated

Sorry Tswifty - I disagree. The store he bought the tank from gave him his money back - what more do you want them to do?

Its not their fault he bought the tank and transported it to a location 4 hours away.

And who knows where the damage occurred - the store could very well feel it occurred after they sold it - and yet they are still refunding the money.

I really think expecting the store to provide anything more than a full refund makes no sense.

JMHO
 
Disagreeing with me doesn't offend me. However selling a defective product does. Also, we're not talking a little scratch either. The consumer's time and effort are taken into consideration. It's just good business practice.

The majority of my purchases have been successful. However, I have had a few go bad. The ones that have gone REALLY bad have all been handled in a professional manner by the resulting businesses.

For instance... Blue Zoo Aquatics shipped me snails that were different than the ones I had originally ordered, and they killed a Crocea clam. They did offer me a refund for the snails initially... but that doesn't help the fact that they shipped me the wrong items, which caused a larger problem ($70 dead clam). Is it their fault I added them to my 90g tank with the clam... and not my 30g tank with no clams? No... However, the original mistake was there's... allowing the wrong item to leave their place of business.

I emailed them about my dissatisfaction, and at first was blown off. Then after about a year... yeah one year... I was contacted by them and sent a new clam as a replacement for the one I lost (not originally purchased from them) and lengthy email about the changes the business has gone through since my mistake.

I'm sorry, but we are paying them money for a product or service... the responsibility is on them... not us as the consumers. If you feel otherwise, then that is your right.

If you're happy with a refund... more power to you... Me on the other hand. I look at the wasted time and money caused by a slip in the manufacturers/retailer's quality control. I'm sorry, but if you sell me a cracked tank... you better make it up to me, or I won't be buying from you again. How the heck am I going to trust another product from you that is supposed to hold 120g of water for 10+ years? There's too many other manufacturers out there... I'll simply go elsewhere.

I guess it's my background in quality control/process design, and the standard I was held to in my work... mistakes or customer claims simply were not tolerated. I look at mistakes such as this one as pure laziness on behalf of the manufacturer/retailer. Seriously... these braces are not that weak, or brittle... Most likely someone at the LFS stood on it to get something, dropped another tank on it, or stored it improperly. I've seen all of the above done at LFS's we all vist in the area.

Anyway, like I said... if you're happy with the outcome... then that is all that matters. I'm not out to get a "free lunch" from anyone. However, I do, and will continue to hold the people I do business with to a higher standard than most.
 
Hey guys,
Yeah it was a frustrating experience and I feel it falls in that gray area of it can be handled really well by the store or not so well at all. Yes, I live 5 hours away and that was a risk I took if something was wrong it would be a long drive back to the store. However, my frustration obviously is that they wouldn't work with me for any type of better resolution. For instance, after I had taken the tank back and gotten a full refund from TFP I called Elmer's to see if they would swing a deal for the same tank with me for the same price as TFP. I told them I was a member of PMASI and I bought a lot of things from their store and I would prefer to buy my new tank from them if they could match the other places prices. The manager didn't even hesitate. Anne it was I believe. She said "Sure come on down we will take care of that for you." This to me is good customer service. Same thing with their fish policy and 1/2 credit program. I actually bought a 6-line wrasse from them once, got the bag home, went to float it and the fish was DOA in the bag. Called Elmer's, told them what happened and they gave me a full credit for the fish UNSEEN. That is working with the customer IMO. The scary part about TFP is I posted my complaints in their feedback forum and their rep responded saying that I should be happy because they at least gave me a refund which apparently they don't usually do. He said it was my fault my family didn't inspect the tank closer. Well THEY TRIED! Both my gf and her mom asked to examine the tank. The loading guys wouldn't let them open the tank box. Said it was store policy for their guys to load the tank in the car so they know its not broken and they looked at the tank already inside and it was fine. Well how about if it is broken already in their warehouse? Not possible according to their reps. It is my fault because I don't have x-ray vision and could not see under a layer of cardboard and saran wrap protecting the trim and sides. When my gf's mom returned the tank the employee said they get tank returns all the time for broken center braces. Apparently, they stack the tanks on top of each other in their warehouse. Hmm...coincidence...maybe that is what that 90 degree white gash and crack bending downwards is from on the center brace. Nope couldn't be. You must have broken it moving it into your car. C'mon people...

Rant over...my apologies.;)
 
You handled it well.....

As a reefer you will come to be frustrated time and time again....

As I think we all have over time.....

But we keep over coming....

Isnt that what a hobby is all about?

:)
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14975676#post14975676 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ironwill723
Hey guys,
Yeah it was a frustrating experience and I feel it falls in that gray area of it can be handled really well by the store or not so well at all. Yes, I live 5 hours away and that was a risk I took if something was wrong it would be a long drive back to the store. However, my frustration obviously is that they wouldn't work with me for any type of better resolution.

I realize you were frustrated by this but you already knew from your own research their prices on this tank were extremely low (so not much margin to begin with) and really, what better resolution could you seriously expect other than your money back or an exchange for a new tank - both of which they offered.

To expect something more IMO is unrealistic. I know a few folks here feel otherwise, but look at it from the vendor's persective.


The scary part about TFP is I posted my complaints in their feedback forum and their rep responded saying that I should be happy because they at least gave me a refund which apparently they don't usually do. He said it was my fault my family didn't inspect the tank closer. Well THEY TRIED! Both my gf and her mom asked to examine the tank. The loading guys wouldn't let them open the tank box. Said it was store policy for their guys to load the tank in the car so they know its not broken and they looked at the tank already inside and it was fine. [/B]

To be fair - their response which I copied below does not seem unreasonable. It sounds like they are eating the cost :

ironwill723

I am sorry to hear about these unfortunate circumstances with your purchase, I know that setting up a new aquarium is an exciting event, and that any problems can be very frustrating.

That being said, I think that what we offered as a resolution to the problem was fair and appropriate given the circumstances. We have given you a full refund for the aquarium, even though we will not get credit for the tank from the manufacturer. Defective issues are covered under warranty, physical damage issues are not once the tank has been delivered to us from the manufacturer. As far as the damage to the tank, there is no clear way to determine how or when the damage occurred. You had a third party purchase the aquarium for you, whom you met at some point between Lancaster and Pittsburgh, transferred the aquarium from one vehicle to another, then noticed the damage upon unloading the aquarium in Pittsburgh.
Your claim that we do not allow inspection of the aquariums at the time of purchase is not the case, we absolutely allow, and in fact welcome, customers to fully inspect aquariums for scratches and other damage before any aquarium leaves the store. As policy, we do not accept damage claims once a tank leaves the premises, a policy which we did not uphold in this case. As I stated above, the manufacturer will only warrant against defects, not physical damage.

All tank sales are handled this way, no matter if you live down the street, or across the state. I feel badly about your travel time involved in this situation, but that is not something that we can be held responsible for. You have been given a full refund for the aquarium, this is what we feel was a fair resolution to the problem

Sincerely,

Dave
 
Well, I think we all learned a valuable lesson from this:

Check with the local supporting stores before purchasing elsewhere!!!
 
That response is ridiculous. They act like they're doing you a favor by giving you a refund, and they're going to take a loss. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Sorry... unless they jumped on the brace... there's no way loading it onto a vehicle could have broken it. Once again, we're not talking about a chip or scratch.

The margins on this stuff is INCREDIBLY high... don't let them try to make it seem like it isn't. If they end up eating the cost WHICH THEY SHOULD. Isn't going to shut their doors, they just make up that cost selling $5 Yellow Tangs for $40 a pop. So don't worry. Regardless they're not going to eat the cost either (don't let them sell you that story), they'll just replace the brace and place it back up for sale like nothing happened.

For all you know, they broke it at the store then repacked it to conceal it. Unless you're experienced with tanks, how many people would unwrap a tank in the store??? They're trying to wiggle out because you had a third party transfer the tank... that's all.

It's pointless to go round and round... at least you got you're refund. Thumbs down to "That Crook Place" all you can do is warn others about them.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14976563#post14976563 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Tswifty
That response is ridiculous. They act like they're doing you a favor by giving you a refund, and they're going to take a loss. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Sorry... unless they jumped on the brace... there's no way loading it onto a vehicle could have broken it. Once again, we're not talking about a chip or scratch.

The margins on this stuff is INCREDIBLY high... don't let them try to make it seem like it isn't. If they end up eating the cost WHICH THEY SHOULD. Isn't going to shut their doors, they just make up that cost selling $5 Yellow Tangs for $40 a pop. So don't worry. Regardless they're not going to eat the cost either (don't let them sell you that story), they'll just replace the brace and place it back up for sale like nothing happened.

For all you know, they broke it at the store then repacked it to conceal it. Unless you're experienced with tanks, how many people would unwrap a tank in the store??? They're trying to wiggle out because you had a third party transfer the tank... that's all.

It's pointless to go round and round... at least you got you're refund. Thumbs down to "That Crook Place" all you can do is warn others about them.

But if you do look at it from a vendor's perspective, I can definitely sympathize (and even agree) with what John is saying. There isn't a way to prove the brace wasn't damaged, or for that matter, that it wasn't broken when somebody moved the tank. I understand that's not the case, because your people would've probably been honest (I certainly don't want to accuse people I don't know of not having integrity) but let's be honest, there are a lot of shady people in the world who would have broken it themselves, and not owned up to it, and if manufacturers or retailers gave refunds and then some to everyone who complained, they'd go out of business. If the business wouldn't allow you to inspect the tank, I would've refused to buy. I realize that this would've resulted in a wasted trip, but honestly, I think that if you showed that kind of willingness to back out, they would've acquiesced to your very reasonable request, and then this whole mess would've been averted. Just because the dock hands are too lazy to unpack/repack a tank doesn't mean that the manager is going to agree with their nonchalant perspective. Local Fish Stores and most manufacturers can't operate on the Walmart return principle, and we shouldn't expect it.

As far as the markup they charge you, they have to. Even if they paid $5 for the yellow tang, the cost to the store once they pay taxes, payroll, social security, insurance, rent (or land taxes), the electric bill, etc. is astronomical. The bottom line is that margins in any store that keeps a large amount of livestock of any kind need to be high, because the carrying cost and overhead of the business is also high, so this is not, IMHO, a justified rationalization.

That's just my two pennies...now back into the woodwork I go. Anyone want to buy a perfectly in tact 120? I've been trying to sell one.:rollface:
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14976695#post14976695 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cloakerpoked
But if you do look at it from a vendor's perspective...
:rolleye1:

A new brace will cost them probably $2 or something insignificant... IF Perfecto just doesn't send them a replacement free of charge. The fact they are trying to lead on that they will take a loss for the entire tank is ridiculous.

I agree a markup is necessary... however, ever noticed how those prices fluctuate? IMO an extraordinarily high markup should not be implemented in order to make up for poor business practices.

Anyway... this is pointless... and just goes to show you, how valuable a trustworthy LFS is.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14976767#post14976767 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Tswifty


Anyway... this is pointless... and just goes to show you, how valuable a trustworthy LFS is.

+1 to that
 
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