Full Spectrum DIY guide

[jerpa]

You order a lot you getting much more....
Basic Business practice
There's no magic they call it clean room
Extreme clean condition.....
magic sauce recipe-yes they do. that's why takes them many months of hard work and testing before they release new product to their customers.
As a big boys company they want to make sure product work as advertised.....
When they have 500+customers happy a week .....

Most commercial fixtures use off the shelf LEDs. I think you may be giving too much credit with regards to the R&D done on many of these fixtures. Most testing is for packaging, software control, ease of use etc. It is painfully obvious most of the emitter combinations have followed the path of the DIY'ers on these forums. 500 customers a week would equate to over 25,000 units a year. I dont know that any companies are hitting those figures. This is a fairly niche hobby.

Companies can have there own phosphors created but these are not rivaling Cree, or any other large manufacturer, in the efficiency of their phosphors. Cree has the most efficient LEDs due to their phosphors being much more efficient than other companies. Their extremely tight binning is another reason they are considered some of the best.

 

[PolyReef]

If you put together all big boys....
Thank you for Cree explanation. You will be surprised how many wonderful things are made lately in this company.
BW looking at the three major one they are in process of implementing or they are done that already
Custom-made LEDs.If is possible look at LEDs under microscope they should explain you why they are so different.
phosphors......
You can use this technique for making decision which LED you want to use for your project.

 

[Blayz77]

what do you mean by triangle shape? do you mean 3 leds in a tringle format on a triangle board? if so whats the difference?

 

[Blayz77]

when i was refering to magic sauce recipe i was refering to phosphors sure there might be some variations but nothing super significant. i didnt mean when it comes to r&d of coarse any reputable and legit company should be doing this...

 

[jerpa]

Unfortunately we are too small of a hobby to warrant R&D on the scale necessary to answer the questions we have. We, as a reefing community, will spend large amounts of our own money finding variations that work and please the masses. Someone will then package it and sell it to those less technically inclined. You do have people who come up with great concepts on their own but when you get into designing lighting for photosynthetic animals it is daunting and the time involved for these relatively small companies isn't feasible IMO. We all know how long it takes to successfully evaluate lights over a reef tank. We can usually see color shifts fairly quickly but with all the variables involved studying growth rates would take years to get anything concrete. Most of these fixtures are being replaced or updated every 18 months. With the time necessary just to get manufacturing and logistical avenues worked out there doesn't leave a lot of time for R&D.

This is of course JMO but also a reason you don't see too much true innovation coming from reef-related companies like you do in other industries.

Sorry for rambling and diverging from the topic. I'll shut up now.

 

[Blayz77]

Ok so for the guts I'm thinking this.....

12" or 18" makers led heatsink, will depend on how many LEDs we come up with. The good thing about this sink is flexibility to move around the LEDs.

DIM 4 controller for sunrise/sunset/fan etc.

Inventronics drivers 25-40 watt depending on LEDs

LEDs listed are a starting point, any help, input is appreciated!
4- UV LEDs bridglux
4- ocean coral white stars 470nm,495nm,660nm
10-royal blue bridgelux
6-8 whites???? I have a mix laying around
Blue 470nm???
Orange/amber Cree #????
Green/ Cree/bridglux ????

in response to your post i think it looks like a good plan, i would like to see the use of the orange color. this is of coarse because i would be interested in using it =). in terms of the 470nm to my untrained eye the ocw seem to give a decent amount of that but lacking in the green in terms of the 530nm. this is of coarse only going by a color graph i see in relation to those ocw.

so mayby a couple more 530nm to balance it? beats me like i said i dunno nothing lol. maybe add 5-6 ocw to get more of that 470 and throw a couple 530nm in the mix with a couple orange here and there for flavor?

 

[Blayz77]

Unfortunately we are too small of a hobby to warrant R&D on the scale necessary to answer the questions we have. We, as a reefing community, will spend large amounts of our own money finding variations that work and please the masses. Someone will then package it and sell it to those less technically inclined. You do have people who come up with great concepts on their own but when you get into designing lighting for photosynthetic animals it is daunting and the time involved for these relatively small companies isn't feasible IMO. We all know how long it takes to successfully evaluate lights over a reef tank. We can usually see color shifts fairly quickly but with all the variables involved studying growth rates would take years to get anything concrete. Most of these fixtures are being replaced or updated every 18 months. With the time necessary just to get manufacturing and logistical avenues worked out there doesn't leave a lot of time for R&D.

This is of course JMO but also a reason you don't see too much true innovation coming from reef-related companies like you do in other industries.

Sorry for rambling and diverging from the topic. I'll shut up now.

i agree with you on this its just like most anythign else outside of this hobby. the bottom line is the companies by in large are out to make money, they might be thinking about the animals needs or photosynthic properties thats best for the hobby, but like you say it would take many years to nail it down and by then a complete new lighting tech might be taking over....so its the old story of it it does close to what we want it to do push it out and we will worry about side effects later. and it doesnt have to be a small hobby or entity to see this happen after all there are countless examples when it comes to medicine, in the end it all comes down to money

 

[PolyReef]

Unfortunately we are too small of a hobby to warrant R&D on the scale necessary to answer the questions we have. We, as a reefing community, will spend large amounts of our own money finding variations that work and please the masses. Someone will then package it and sell it to those less technically inclined. You do have people who come up with great concepts on their own but when you get into designing lighting for photosynthetic animals it is daunting and the time involved for these relatively small companies isn't feasible IMO. We all know how long it takes to successfully evaluate lights over a reef tank. We can usually see color shifts fairly quickly but with all the variables involved studying growth rates would take years to get anything concrete. Most of these fixtures are being replaced or updated every 18 months. With the time necessary just to get manufacturing and logistical avenues worked out there doesn't leave a lot of time for R&D.

This is of course JMO but also a reason you don't see too much true innovation coming from reef-related companies like you do in other industries.

Sorry for rambling and diverging from the topic. I'll shut up now.

No you are not....
Reef industry is very unique but don't forget the price point of the items is unique also.... looking at average cost of the tank let's say $2500
Low estimate, you will be surprise how much money is in this industry.
Very few of us talking here but there are many who listen....

 

[PolyReef]

what do you mean by triangle shape? do you mean 3 leds in a tringle format on a triangle board? if so whats the difference?

Triangle board.

 

[Blayz77]

Triangle board.

which is my question what is the advantage to a triangle board opposed to a circle board to me this is like comparing fiji water bottle to arrowhead bottle ones square and ones round but they both do the same thing "hold water"

 

[Nanofreak79]

I don't want to come off as a jerk here........but could we stay on topic and use this thread for what it is. If you want to debate the other stuff, do so somewhere else IMO. It seems to be detracting from what were focusing on. JMO of course!

 

[BeanAnimal]

Every major manufacturer would not deal with retail customer. They have distributors for that.

I agree and never said they would. My point is that most (all?) of the the reef lighting manufacturers are not big enough to demand specialized treatment and are going through distribution as well. There is no magic and in fact unlike most products, all of the bits and pieces are available to the DIYer in the same quality and form that they are to the manufacturer.

And if you don't have somebody in China good luck you getting the .....
Bins are recognize by numbers. Chinese doesn't recognize American numbers....
Except in dollar's....
And if I am not mistaking Cree only produce lower end LEDs in China.
Good stuff stays at home..... for a very simple reason.
High tech industries are required by the law.

No disagreement at all... but who says I don't know somebody

But back to the point... The fixture manufacturers are not paying big bucks to get secret or special bins, they are buying the same crap we are and trying to make a profit.

Lastly, this hobby is tiny with very little money. For that matter, as the world economy weakens, people are leaving hobbies like this in droves. Poly, the landscape is littered with companies who thought there was big bucks to be made in reef keeping. Most of them trying to sell hard goods that have a low replacement rate. Selling somebody a fixture that will take 5-10 years to pay off and yields $200 -$500 in profit does not make repeat customers or long term stability. Even lower price hard good companies go bankrupt by the droves. Lool at IceCap, PFO, Custom Sea Life, etc, etc. The bulk of the companies have been purchased by global pet corporations like United Pet, or they would be gone as well.

 

[Blayz77]

http://www.clay-boa.com/makersled-designer-heatsink-kit-professional-grade/ is this the heatsink you are thinking about using? you said makers led so im assuming this is the one you meant? if so i am really liking this one, it seems to be really well thought out product.

are there any other heatsinks simillar to this in terms of design? basically is there anymore like this that are not the standard flat brick of aluminum?

 

[PolyReef]

Yes you're right they are not paying a lot of money for LED because they are buying in big volumes,many of us changing to LEDs. and yes same equipment you don't change that often.Led's are new and a lot of people are changing to Led's-market vacuum.
And on top of that prices are going down more customer will change to Led's.
recession cleanup many businesses smarter and stronger businesses Will being more profitable. and what I'm hearing lately lot of those businesses Have huge increases in sales.
Is not easy for independent owner to be successful sometimes less is more...
BW
And some of them are successful because they start caring LEDs and another product from the same company you know10,40,60
"I agree and never said they would. My point is that most (all?) of the the reef lighting manufacturers are not big enough to demand specialized treatment"
Money talks, value in orders, Long term relationship,
Market leader, purchase order prepayments........
That's how you buying five dollar LEDs for $2.10

 

[Nanofreak79]

http://www.clay-boa.com/makersled-designer-heatsink-kit-professional-grade/ is this the heatsink you are thinking about using? you said makers led so im assuming this is the one you meant? if so i am really liking this one, it seems to be really well thought out product.

are there any other heatsinks simillar to this in terms of design? basically is there anymore like this that are not the standard flat brick of aluminum?
?

It's the only heatsink I know of that offers this amount of features. The rapid led heatsink is decent, but not as versatile or slick looking IMO.

 

[Blayz77]

i am sold on that heatsink, i would like it to be a little wider though. however if you can fit over 30 led on thier 12" there should be no problem getting 46 to 50 or more one the 18". i also like this option for the clustering you can apprear to achieve with this fixture..

edit : not to mention it has the wife stamp of approval right on the webpage lol, how can you go wrong =)

 

[jerpa]

It's the only heatsink I know of that offers this amount of features. The rapid led heatsink is decent, but not as versatile or slick looking IMO. LOL about the website.....every time I try to edit mine it reverts back to clay boa?:headwallblue:

It reverts to clay-boa because that website is blocked by the RC censor.

 

[Nanofreak79]

i am sold on that heatsink, i would like it to be a little wider though. however if you can fit over 30 led on thier 12" there should be no problem getting 46 to 50 or more one the 18". i also like this option for the clustering you can apprear to achieve with this fixture..

edit : not to mention it has the wife stamp of approval right on the webpage lol, how can you go wrong =)

It's deffinetly wide enough for most applications, all but maybe some DD tanks. I have one fixture retroed into a tek fixture and another up right now on a black heatsink. The one with black sink and fan on top is deffinetly less attractive. I did however put the drivers into a project box. You can fit more on the 18", but I might use it to help space the clusters for more even spread. This way I don't need to hang the fixture so high.

 

[Blayz77]

man i wish there wasw more you tube videos on that heatsink from people lol all i found is some dude that bought a 72" one lmao i cant even imagine how many leds would fit on that thing lol.

of coarse having the room to space the clusters is nice which is another reason why i like this, its just nice to know if you needed or wanted to put a bunch more on there you can.

in my case for a 2x2x2 tank i could probably get away with using the 12 inch fixture. but becuase i was thinking of doing around 36 leds and want some extra space i am going to opt for the 18" as well.

my only uncertainty is do i spend the money to essentially build this thing for fun and experimentation on a tank i will be tearing down in the coming months. on the other hand it would be good practice for when adress the lighting for the 120g sitting here waiting.

 

[perikaruppan]

Dear friends
I have a 8x2.75x2.25 tank and currently running them on 8 panels of 24 LEDs each. Each panel has 4CW,4NW,13RB,3blues currently

The coloration is good but not great and after much research found that people are adding ultra purples , deep reds and turquoise for better spectrum. So thought why don't I try replacing 5 panels with the new setup. And retain 3 with the previous config

Currently looking at the following combo:
Each panel will be of 32 leds consisting of
4 XTE cool whites
5 XTE neutral whites
11 XTE Royal blues
4 XPE blues
6 Chinese make ultra purples

1 Chinese make deep reds 660nm

1 Chinese make turquoise


This entire setup with be fitted into a 15" x 7.5" heat sink to make one panel

Planning to do an Aluminium board and use reflow solder to get the emitters soldered into the board so that there will be minimum wiring.
The AL board will be fixed onto the heat sink using screws and heatsinking compound.
I plan to use 5 CATs to drive them as follows:
1 - 6 RBs
2 - 4 CW and 2 NW
3 - 3 RBs and 3 NW
4 - 2 RBs, 4 blues
5 - 6 deep purples
The green and red will be driven separately each by some circuit which I don't know how


My major questions during circuit design are:
1. can I mix the XTE RBs and XPE blues as in the 4th Chanel as above ?
2. How can I do a circuit to drive just one red and just one green , any basic circuit available to drive a LED with PWM option?
3. Will the above combo of LEDs work for a full spectrum option, plan to cover an area of 2'9" x 1'6" of the tank with this panel At a height of 12"

Kindly help me out here to do the design perfectly