Fun with DPV's

i dive a apollo dry suit which is fairly thick neoprene so there is a bit of padding, but as uncomfortable as it looks or might sound its wide enough to be very comfortable, ive been to 5th d a few times and was basically shunned for not being a DIR diver. im sorry i think the concept is there but really your gonna measure the length of my octo hose and tell me is 2 inches to short so you wont dive me.

Wow... They were that way to you? Sorry to hear it. Not all DIR divers are that way. :)

The hose concept was pioneered by Bill Hogarth Main, so it's called a "Hogarthian" rig. It's the standard in "technical" diving, and especially found in overhead or cave diving. It's been made popular by Global Underwater Explorers, which is a certifying agency like PADI or NAUI. In GUE, they call the concept of their diving "Doing It Right" or DIR.

DIR divers often appear to be zealots, especially the new ones. We jokingly refer to ourselves as "The Dark Side" because most DIR divers dive exclusively black gear. As gear fades from sun and use, black is still black... Pink turns to flesh, blue turns to periwinkle, and neon green turns to lima bean... So black tends to be the color of choice for most divers that dive all the time and tend to wear out their gear. Hence - "The Dark Side." :)

There's other humor, too, in DIR... When I first joined GUE, I called them "DIR Nazis," and the WKPP "The Third Reich." :) When someone is wearing gear that makes them look silly, we call it a "Rule 6 violation," which implies that there's rules #1-#5... Which there isn't. Kinda an inside joke, really.

The antithesis of a DIR diver is jokingly called a "stroke" because whenever a standard, recreational diver gets around a DIR diver, they tend to try to qualify themselves with outlandish accomplishments... "I invented scuba diving," or, "I used to be a Navy Seal," or, "I dove to 900 feet yesterday..." Since they're stroking their own egos, we call them "strokes." By definition, a "stroke" is anybody with an unsafe attitude, which actually can be a DIR diver or a non-DIR diver. An example of an unsafe attitude would be someone who does not care for their gear properly, drinks lots of beer prior to the dive, or does things repeatedly that you see are going to someday get him in a lot of trouble while diving.

...Anyway, DIR is a minority group within the minority group of scuba divers. Some of them appear to be "holier than thou," and some of them don't. Don't let one person's crappy attitude give you a certain impression of the entire group.

The Hogarthian rig is exemplified on page 8 of the PADI Advanced Open Water manual, so it's not like it's a DIR-only thing. The idea behind it is that a donating diver donates the regulator that's surely working to an out-of-air diver... The one that's in his mouth. From there, the donator would switch to his own backup reg, which is necklaced around his neck. Theoretically, this can be done without using his hands, which is a tremendous advantage when your hands are already occupied by a scooter, a light, a reel, slate, and a set of tools.

It also has the advantage that it's the same setup that most doubles use, and most rebreathers, too... So the idea is that if you dive Hogarthian, you don't have to learn new stuff to switch to more advanced forms of diving.

A regulator donated from someone using a Hogarthian rig has a whopping seven feet of hose on it, which is necessary to swim out of a cave or shipwreck if you have to leave single-file though a restriction. Anything shorter won't allow for the divers to swim single-file, which can make it impossible to exit a restriction in an OOA situation.

...So yeah, I can see how someone would tell you that if you were diving a "standard" "short" hose setup, they wouldn't dive with you... After all, you're not equipped in many situations to donate and keep your buddy alive.

That said, it's obviously not an issue if you aren't diving overhead or staged decompression diving.

There are positive and negative ways of explaining it to someone... To be abrasive about it is not the right way.

Sorry you had that experience.

The owner of 5th D is Andrew Georgitis... He's a great guy and very cool. He's also an excellent GUE instructor. I took my first GUE classes with him. Talk to him.
 
i completly agree again just my expience, i think that dir has great thoughts and really well thought out. if i wanted to get heavy into penetration dives and caves thats deff a route to go i just think there is a time and place for it and its not practical for the average recreational diver, i am not gonna pack my 7 foot hose with me for my next trip to bali. but if i were to go back to truk then yes you bet.

on a side note if you start upgrading and modding the sea do please post some pics and results would be a very fun project!! what a deal!
 
Jep! Whatheheck have you been up to, my friend! :)

Holy smokes... Based on your number of posts, looks like you've been here a while. I didn't know that! :)

Man, it's good to see ya, bud. :) What's it been - like four years?


Hey SeaJay, life has been very busy and interesting. Got into Rebreather diving earlier this year, bought a unit/got trained etc...got about 30 dives on it....then sold it based on new life events. ;)

I've lingered around here about 2 years ago or so..that is where all the posts came from. My interest has peaked again here because i have an unfinished basement now with room for a kick arse setup. :)

What is up with you?
 
I was up at 3:30am, out the door at 4:00, stopped by a clients' office to change bulbs on his tank (a 1000g that I dove last night), hit the highway at 4:30 and arrived in Atlanta @ the Aqurium about an hour and a half ago... It was exactly an 8 hour trip with 2 stops...

I'm now waiting for SeaJay and his team that is running about 2.5 hours behind me.

-Tim
 
This has been the most INCREDIBLE experience... We worked/dove until 4:00am this morning, and will be back at it in a couple more hours.

SeaJay has the absolute finest bouyancy that I've ever seen. He can hover perfectly 2'' off the bottom, completely motionless and in ANY position! :eek:

We'll post pix once we get a chance to decompress and rest up.

-Tim

ps: Since this is his baby, your'e gonna have wait for SeaJay to tell ya'll about what we did. ;)
 
A regulator donated from someone using a Hogarthian rig has a whopping seven feet of hose on it, which is necessary to swim out of a cave or shipwreck if you have to leave single-file though a restriction. Anything shorter won't allow for the divers to swim single-file, which can make it impossible to exit a restriction in an OOA situation.
I had an opportunity to NEED to utilize SeaJay's regulator Friday morning, and due to the 7' hose, I was able to complete my portion of what we were doing as if I was still on my own rig... I drained my tank and motioned OOA, at which point he pulled his reg and stuffed it into my face. Due to the length, we then continued working as if we were on our own tanks. Once we completed our task at hand and were ready to surface, I opted for CESA to free him up.

After seeing it in action (and being a benefactor)
I'm absolutely sold on the DIR concept!

-Tim
 
Fantastic working with you the past couple of days, Tim!

Jep: Sorry I didn't reply earlier... Working on the GA Aquarium.

Too cool that you've gotten into rebreathers. I haven't yet made that transition, but I did go pro as a commercial diver. Business is great, and I'm working my butt off. :)

What "life events" made you sell your rebreather?
 
Tim, I dive with a 7ft hose and a backup around my neck..but this doesn't mean I'm DIR. In fact, I am not. That is just one aspect of the whole DIR concept, before you embrace the whole culture make sure you understand what it's all about. :)

It's not for everyone, including myself.

SeaJay, rebreathers are awesome..I'm going to miss mine next time I go diving. :( Life events..hmm, married, new home, 2 week old chitlin...yeah, that'll do it. :)

J
 
Tim, I dive with a 7ft hose and a backup around my neck..but this doesn't mean I'm DIR. In fact, I am not. That is just one aspect of the whole DIR concept, before you embrace the whole culture make sure you understand what it's all about. :)

It's not for everyone, including myself.

Jep's not alone in his opinion of DIR. I know a lot of people who feel the way way he does.

Tim, I'm really flattered by your compliments - thanks! I can't begin to express to you how much fun it is to be in a never-ending "skydive." To me, that's one of the most fun parts of scuba diving... The incredible feeling of weightlessness and "hovering" that is completely enhanced by those concepts taught in the "Fundamentals of DIR" class offered by GUE.

There's no scuba-certifying agency that doesn't encourage and teach perfection in buoyancy and trim... But GUE (DIR) takes it to a completely new level. In the words of those who invented the program, it "raises the bar," which is borne of North Florida's cave systems. Since there can be millions of years of dust at the bottom of many of those caves, an errant fin kick can wipe out visibility for weeks... So it became very important to teach a horizontal attitude in the water, fins up and off the bottom, the "frog" kick (which prevents a downward wake from your fins), and of course, perfect bouyancy controllable to within an inch or less. In fact, GUE teaches trim that's so "nailed" that a simple bend at the knee can change your attitude in the water - no fin kick (and therefore no fin wake to disturb sediments) required. It's an incredibly cool experience, and works in your favor no matter what kind of diving you're doing.

The equipment isn't DIR-specific either... I know non-DIR divers that wear backplates and wings, 7-foot primary hoses, necklaced backup regulators, and heavy, stiff Jet fins. I do NOT know, however, any DIR divers that do NOT use that equipment... So DIR = that "kind" of gear, but that "kind" of gear does not necessarily = DIR. :)

I'm not sure what Jep meant by "make sure you understand what the culture is all about." I haven't found anything weird or unapparent about the culture... Only that they teach a "team" mentality, consistency in gear from one teammate to another (so that everyone knows everyone else's gear as well as their own) and excellence in useful skills that are based on real-world experience rather than textbook and probably not very realistic "what ifs." As such, a DIR team tends to be very "tight" and may appear "exclusive" to others. That appearance may make the team members aloof or arrogant, which can make divers outside the team a little miffed. True DIR divers (those holding a current Fundies card or higher, and adhering to all equipment and skill sets taught in DIR) are aware of this problem (that they're going to appear aloof and arrogant even before they open their mouths) and do their best to take specific steps to NOT appear that way.

I was floored to see that the divers in the GA Aquarium were ALL DIR... At least in gear, skills, and experience. I found it very interesting that none of them had been actually GUE-certified... That is, none of them had actually taken a Fundies course. By definition, then, they technically aren't DIR... But the DIR influence was very apparent and I could not tell that they weren't actually certified. It made me wonder who it was that actually taught them all to dive that way.

SeaJay, rebreathers are awesome..I'm going to miss mine next time I go diving. :( Life events..hmm, married, new home, 2 week old chitlin...yeah, that'll do it. :)

J

Heh... Yeah, that'll do it. :) Congratulations...

I've been eyeballing the new Dive Rite rebreather, even though it's a full CCR. Pretty sharp stuff indeed! What was the best part about diving with one?
 
Tim, I dive with a 7ft hose and a backup around my neck..but this doesn't mean I'm DIR. In fact, I am not. That is just one aspect of the whole DIR concept, before you embrace the whole culture make sure you understand what it's all about. :)

It's not for everyone, including myself.
Hey no worries... I'm fully aware that the gear is Tech and that it's primarily the performance and skills which are DIR.

My comment in regards to being "the benefactor" had far less to do with the 7' hose than it did with the diver handing it to me. ;) SeaJay was right there holding my torch just far enough out of my way and never once wavered. As he stated, the other divers were obviously in DIR mode, and as I told SeaJay last night, between GA's divers and he and Kym, I learned more simply from watching them than I honestly have in any of my several PADI classes.

Being that I'm pretty much an anal rententive obsessive compulsive perfectionist, I try to do everything to the best of my abilities, and that means that if there is still learnin' to do to get there, then so be... I am now, and always will consider myself a student in most elements in life... It's bad enough that I actually annoy the hell out of myself, so I can only imagine how much I must get on the nerves of others'! :D

I am an expert/professional reefkeeper but you'll rarely ever see me anywhere on Reef Central other than this SCUBA forum, because to be brutally honest there is next to nothing left for me to learn in that regard. This setion of RC however has much to offer me in the ways of additional knowledge and education. ;)

-Tim

PS - Somebody find me a dive buddy in the Fort Pierce area please!
 
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