future large tank owner question

[lilc64]

I've been coming to this site for years reading and using information but just recently registered. Now im building a new home and have the room for a nice size tank, i've spoken with north dallas aquarium and they will be coming out to help me design this large reef tank. I got alot of good information from them but thought this forum could give me some good insight on a decision thats plaged me the most, should i go glass or acyrlic? I was planning on going with a hybrid pvc bottom/ acyrlic tank, but i keep seeing the long time large tank owners going starphire glass. I thought for sure acyrlic was the best choice hands down because of the weight of a large glass tank but i was hoping someone could tell me why people are going glass over acyrlic.
p.s ive only ever had a 55gal glass tank so i have never experienced the scratching problem of acyrlic, i have small kids one being 2 and he likes to pick stuff up and occationally hit the tank.:mad2: please give me some insight guys.

 

[lilc64]

Any other information for a first time large tank owner would be appreciated as well.

 

[DaveMorris]

Glass all the way. I have a 300g glass Leemar tank with Starphire glass and love it. My biggest concern with acrylic is scratches. I have seen a lot of large, beautiful reef tanks with ugly scratches all along the bottom.

 

[geaux xman]

What size or tank dimensions are you considering?

If its in the 2-300g range, I like glass and the weight issue isnt really that offensive.
online weight calculator http://boonedocks.net/fishtank/ftweb.php

ie.. Marineland 300g DD(72x36x27) is 12mm(.47") glass. Thats roughly 400lbs and easily handled by 4-5 guys. My 180g starphire rimless is 3/4" glass(430lbs) and was easily handled back and forth on top of the stand to work on the overflow by just me and my buddy. 4 guys threw it on top of a 35" tall stand without a struggle.

Also, you will only have to move it once. A 2nd time if you want to sell it or upgrade.

Acrylic is amazingly clear new. Starphire while very clear too, isn't on the same level as acrylic. IMO.

For a beginner, 225g(72x30x24") is a good size. I see so many bigger tanks, but they look so empty. Taking years and years for it to start looking good. Providing proper lighting for a monster size tank can get real expensive too.

So see how much you are willing to put out total and start pricing items.

Start thinking about what kind of overflow too.

Also consider what kind of fish you want to keep. Smaller tanks will limit you. At first and very new to the hobby, I thought 180g was big and I can keep whatever I want. Now EVERYDAY I wish I had a bigger tank and think about upgrading DAILY so my fish can have more room and I wouldnt be handcuffed on what fish I can keep.

Just some random thoughts.

 

[lilc64]

I plan on making it a peninsula tank that will somewhat divid an area of my living room, i was planning on making it 374(96x30x30maybe)-500g gallons since i wanted it to be pretty long and i like the look of tall tank/stands as well(the ceiling where i want to place it is 9' flat and i want it to almost touch the top( If only the second floor could support that weight, i have a perfect spot up there for it. Im at work so ill have to maybe post my floor plan and a picture from a similar thread of what i want it to look like. They just layed the slab for my house so i plan on taking a tape measure out to the model home next week along with the guy from north dallas aquarium to get the actual measurements. I understand lighting among other things will cost a pretty penny and i do plan on using a full led system hoping i wont have to implement a chiller. total for the tanks set up and everything i hope to not spend over 7 grand seeing as i want to buy all new funiture for the house as well. correct me if i wrong but a large tank of that size and a custom stand should at the least cost me 4500 so i dont know if that budget will be destroyed or not.

 

[Meanmike]

What size or tank dimensions are you considering?

If its in the 2-300g range, I like glass and the weight issue isnt really that offensive.
online weight calculator http://boonedocks.net/fishtank/ftweb.php

ie.. Marineland 300g DD(72x36x27) is 12mm(.47") glass. Thats roughly 400lbs and easily handled by 4-5 guys. My 180g starphire rimless is 3/4" glass(430lbs) and was easily handled back and forth on top of the stand to work on the overflow by just me and my buddy. 4 guys threw it on top of a 35" tall stand without a struggle.

Also, you will only have to move it once. A 2nd time if you want to sell it or upgrade.

Acrylic is amazingly clear new. Starphire while very clear too, isn't on the same level as acrylic. IMO.

For a beginner, 225g(72x30x24") is a good size. I see so many bigger tanks, but they look so empty. Taking years and years for it to start looking good. Providing proper lighting for a monster size tank can get real expensive too.

So see how much you are willing to put out total and start pricing items.

Start thinking about what kind of overflow too.

Also consider what kind of fish you want to keep. Smaller tanks will limit you. At first and very new to the hobby, I thought 180g was big and I can keep whatever I want. Now EVERYDAY I wish I had a bigger tank and think about upgrading DAILY so my fish can have more room and I wouldnt be handcuffed on what fish I can keep.

Just some random thoughts.

I can't argue with you as I have no experience but I have to say that is the first time I've ever heard of acrylic being clearer than starphire.

 

[Ninong]

I would go with 3/4" Starphire for a tank of that size. I have never had an acrylic tank so I can't speak from personal experience but I can tell you that every acrylic tank I have ever seen that was several years old showed scratches.

Back when I was active in the hobby I had a Starphire tank and I loved it.

 

[geaux xman]

I can tell you Miracles 96x36x24" is 4K and their pricing is very competitive with no tax. Thats 3-sided starphire. Peninsula 3-sided starphire will be even more b/c you have two long panels.

This is a minimum pricing:
tank 4500 minimum (3sided starphire) (glasscages maybe 4000)
led 2000 (4 led's) 1200 for the chinese variety
stand 1000
sump+return pump+skimmer 1000
powerheard+ATO+reactors 1000
plumbing+heating+misc 500

I think you are at 10K minimum going with very conservative cost equipment. This doesnt include rock/sand/livestock.


Yeah I did note acrylic when new is very clear. The ones that I've seen several years old are very beat up.

 

[wm jim]

Tank

Tank

My history is glass can scratch also if a piece of sand gets into your magnet as you clean the bottom near the sand. My tank is glass my next will not be but the care level will go up as well in trying not to scratch it. Make sure when it is installed to turn off power to see if any thing over flows and the power back on primes the pump by itself in case your at work when the power goes off and comes back on.

 

[Ninong]

I can't argue with you as I have no experience but I have to say that is the first time I've ever heard of acrylic being clearer than starphire.

I believe his comment was "acrylic is amazingly clear new." That's true. A brand new acrylic pane of the same thickness as a brand new Starphire glass pane is slightly more clear than Starphire glass by actual light transmission measurements. Both are much, much clearer than standard glass. It's very close. Also, that's taking the measurement with the light going straight through the pane, not at an angle. My own personal, non-scientific opinion from actual experience is that if you look through an acrylic aquarium at an angle you will get more distortion than you experience looking through a Starphire glass tank at an angle. That's just my opinion. I don't believe anyone has actually measured that scientifically.

Also, I don't believe anyone has bothered to take the same measurements five years later, after both the acrylic tank and the Starphire tank have been in use. That would be an interesting experiment.

The real eye-opener is the test results for a standard glass pane compared to either Starphire glass or acrylic. The results will knock you off your chair. You will see how regular glass impedes transmission of some wavelengths much more than others, totally changing the apparent color of some corals or fish. It won't be obvious unless you have a Starphire glass tank next to a regular glass tank with the same color corals or fish in both. This comparison is especially obvious when viewing Tridacnid clams in both tanks.

Another point worth considering is that you can't built the same size acrylic tank with the same thickness as you would use with Starphire glass. No one in their right mind would try to build a 96" x 30" x 30" acrylic tank using anything less than 1" acrylic, minimum. That tank could be built using 3/4" Starphire glass. So the light-transmission comparisons are not exactly useful unless you compare Starphire glass against the thicker acrylic that would be needed for the same size tank. I haven't seen such a comparison. I have only seen test results for the exact same thickness of acrylic, Starphire glass and regular glass. Both acrylic and Starphire glass were clearly (no pun intended) superior to regular glass and they didn't change the colors like regular glass.

 

[lilc64]

I would go with 3/4" Starphire for a tank of that size. I have never had an acrylic tank so I can't speak from personal experience but I can tell you that every acrylic tank I have ever seen that was several years old showed scratches.

Back when I was active in the hobby I had a Starphire tank and I loved it.

hopefully ill get alot of opinions on this, but starphire glass is sound like the material of choice.

 

[lilc64]

My history is glass can scratch also if a piece of sand gets into your magnet as you clean the bottom near the sand. My tank is glass my next will not be but the care level will go up as well in trying not to scratch it. Make sure when it is installed to turn off power to see if any thing over flows and the power back on primes the pump by itself in case your at work when the power goes off and comes back on.

yeah a tank of that size scares me simple because ill have all wood floors, and if i had a bad leak or overflow that isnt cleaned up in a timely fashion ill be spending money to replace them.

 

[lilc64]

I can tell you Miracles 96x36x24" is 4K and their pricing is very competitive with no tax. Thats 3-sided starphire. Peninsula 3-sided starphire will be even more b/c you have two long panels.

This is a minimum pricing:
tank 4500 minimum (3sided starphire) (glasscages maybe 4000)
led 2000 (4 led's) 1200 for the chinese variety
stand 1000
sump+return pump+skimmer 1000
powerheard+ATO+reactors 1000
plumbing+heating+misc 500

I think you are at 10K minimum going with very conservative cost equipment. This doesnt include rock/sand/livestock.


Yeah I did note acrylic when new is very clear. The ones that I've seen several years old are very beat up.

yeah 10k was the figure i original thought id be spending, i was hoping to cut it by a couple of thousand but im sure that wishful thinking. I didnt include the rock, fish, etc because that will be purchased over time.

 

[DaveMorris]

A couple thoughts...

1. Regardless of what kind of tank you get, you will spill lots of water during the course of having it.

2. Even if you can save $2k on the build, you know you're gonna spend it on something else for the tank.

 

[Nanook]

Glass all the way. I have a 60x60x30 3/4" glass tank and a 96x30x30 3/4" glass tank. They rarely scratch unless you are careless and they are EASY to clean. Sure, they are heavier, but you only move the tank once on install and once on removal. I have had friends with 450+ acrylic tanks that got rid of them due to the pain of keeping them clean and scratch-free. While a lot of companies build acrylic tanks and will recommend acrylic tanks, the glass tank is a LOT easier to care for long-term.

 

[lilc64]

A couple thoughts...

1. Regardless of what kind of tank you get, you will spill lots of water during the course of having it.

2. Even if you can save $2k on the build, you know you're gonna spend it on something else for the tank.

yeah im sure ill be wondering were my money went once i get it set up, i have a habit of spending until i get something the way i want it.

 

[lilc64]

Glass all the way. I have a 60x60x30 3/4" glass tank and a 96x30x30 3/4" glass tank. They rarely scratch unless you are careless and they are EASY to clean. Sure, they are heavier, but you only move the tank once on install and once on removal. I have had friends with 450+ acrylic tanks that got rid of them due to the pain of keeping them clean and scratch-free. While a lot of companies build acrylic tanks and will recommend acrylic tanks, the glass tank is a LOT easier to care for long-term.

Im getting an overwhelming vote for glass, id be dumb not to take this advice and go glass.

 

[scoupland]

I talked to a number of LFS owners about the glass vs acrylic question since I am looking at building a large tank, and all of them have said with acrylic it is not a matter of "if" but "when" your tank gets scratched regardless of how careful you are. They did so if you go acrylic, don't ever use a magnet to clean it. One of the LFS owner's recently moved to a new location and he replaced all his acrylic tanks with glass because of scratching. Can a glass tank be scratched--sure; but, it is FAR easier to scratch arcylic.

 

[lilc64]

I talked to a number of LFS owners about the glass vs acrylic question since I am looking at building a large tank, and all of them have said with acrylic it is not a matter of "if" but "when" your tank gets scratched regardless of how careful you are. They did so if you go acrylic, don't ever use a magnet to clean it. One of the LFS owner's recently moved to a new location and he replaced all his acrylic tanks with glass because of scratching. Can a glass tank be scratched--sure; but, it is FAR easier to scratch arcylic.

acrylic seems to be less of an option for me the more i hear about it, with the kids around the tank id be doing alot of buffing. Not many arcylic thumbs up here, so i take it most large arcylic tank owners agree glass is the best option.

 

[Crusty Old Shellback]

On the acrylic vs glass question.

I've had glass tanks since the 70's.

When I got my big tank, 400G, it was acrylic.

After 10 years, I'm looking at getting rid of it because of all the scratches and work it takes to try and clean it without scratching it. I'm replacing it with glass. Only difference from my past glass tanks, I'll use Starfire glass this time.

Nuff said.