FWE -- lets get to the bottom

Polyptician

Premium Member
In my experience FWE does NOT work on killing nudis ... try this for yourselves. (Let me know if you find anything different)

Double dose your tank. Isolate a nudi in a clean dish with the water from the tank after you have dosed and watch the nudi. You might want to cover the dish to prevent evaporation and salinity drop. You dont want to kill him because he'll probably be alive for days.

My hypothesis is that if a tank treated with FWE and nudis die, its not caused by the FWE but rather the toxins released from any dead flatworms.

Some have defended fwe's effectiveness by theorizing that there is a possibility that there are two species or strains of nudis -- one succeptable and one unaffected by FWE. Therefore, some would benefit from FWE's use. This is possible.

However, if my hypothesis is correct, then people are wasting time and money needlessly. And should be using other not-so-popular methods like fw dips.

I urge everyone with a nudi problem and some fwe to try this out.
Lets get to the bottom. Perhaps someone with flatworms could enrich us further, make a control no FWE, a FWE nudi, and FWE a nudi and flatworm.

Keep on fighting.
 
I did try it. After a "sucking session" I put 1 - 2 drops of FWE in a styrofoam papercup 3/4 full of water with the nudis. They literally keeled over and dropped dead before my eyes within 60 seconds. Now that is 1 -2 drops to 3/4 cup of water. I have no idea what such a dosage would do in the tank and if it would kill all of them.
We currently have some nudis and egg swirls in a petri dish and will experiment further.
 
Speckled Grouper, that is not what I proposed.


The FWE concentration in you cup would be insanley high.

Please follow FWE instructions and dose no more than double in the appropiate volume of water. Two drops in a cup would probably kill many other invertebrates too.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8423257#post8423257 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BryanBusza
Speckled Grouper, that is not what I proposed.


The FWE concentration in you cup would be insanley high.

Please follow FWE instructions and dose no more than double in the appropiate volume of water. Two drops in a cup would probably kill many other invertebrates too.

Sorry that I didn't follow your instructions to the T, just posted my personal experience with FWE and nudis. I don't have Flatworms, so I can't contribute to that part of the experiment.
 
If you really want to get to the bottom, FWE is for Flat Worm. Not nudi's Exit. read the sticky up top of forum about dip. and use Lugols I'm sure some folks has had luck with FWE though
 
bryanbuzsa
again i know i did not do what you asked but i have been running tests on monti eating nudis and here is what i found. any additions to our knowledge base will help in the long run. and even though they are different species they still have to have a similar physiology

FWE at a very high dosage kinda what speckled did, had a very slow effect at killing them all survived the normal 15 minute dip time - a few subjects lived for days
Iodine at a very high dosage more effective but still not 100% mortalility in the 15 minute normal treatment, some lived for hours after
FWE and iodine mixed seemed to be a little better then iodine alone but again still not 100% mortality and not enough to suggest that adding the FWE made a difference in a normal dipping time routine

i then conducted tests with frags:
corals were not effected by the treatments and opened within hours. my conclusion iodine works better then FWE does not, but that high doses of either does not seem to bother corals - it did kill pods and stomatellas though

fresh water 15second dip - much better then any other treatment, killed most if not all but had to be blown off to be effective when actually dipping corals - but does not kill eggs and they will hatch
fresh water and iodine 15 sec dip - most effective - the little buggers just melted - but i had bleaching issues with some corals(SPS) and it also did not prevent their return

overall i have gone to fresh water iodine dips on frags, but will stick with salt water iodine dips on my rocks and colonies for fear of lossand or bleaching. i have tried and will continue to use FWE as an in tank dose inbetween dipping sessions till i win

i do have some flatworms in a different tank and will try your experiment - but doubt in the long run it will have any useful merit because i know at high population densities flatworm juice effects corals, snails, and even fish!
 
I had heard somewhere that someone had had success with nudis with FWE. I always go the Lugol's or TMPCC route. Both have been very effective for me against zoa nudis and spiders. You have to continue treatments and all of my treatements are done in a QT (I think you guys are trying to come up with an in tank, though, huh). I dip everything in TMPCC (everything) when it arrives and QT everything for inspection for a few weeks, min. Weekly dips are done on corals with unwanted critters (TMPCC for all non zoanthid corals, FW/Iodine for zoas-as TMPCC is made for acros, use at own risk;)). I got rid of my monti nudis with Levamisole (also in QT). It was much less harmful to the Monti's than the Acro's (lost about 40 acros out of ~55 in the AEFW treatment, but only lost one Monti out of ~20 while treating for nudis with Levamisole). My alk and calcium were fluctuating during the monti treatments, so that could have contributed.

IMO, you aren't going to eradicate most of these pests without separation and isolated treatment. I am treating some zoas I got from a local reefer that have nudis and spiders. I have them in my 20L QT. I made the mistake of putting rock in there for more of a biological filter. Just a day or two after doing the second weekly dip, out comes a nudi from the rocks back onto my recently picked clean zoas. If they are in the tank, they are moving, so they stay in the system alot of the times if you just remove the infected corals for a dip and replace in the display. After both AEFW's and Monti nudis in the same six month time frame, nothing goes into a tank without treatment and QT. Many may not agree with that, but after you lose as much as I did to unwanted critters in such a short period of time, you start to change your game plan.Keep up the testing, though, as if there is to be a breakthrough, it will come from the fruits of those labors.
 
Johnanddawn,

Thanks alot for your results with monti nudis and FWE.
I like you would surmise that they share alot of the same physiology.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8425257#post8425257 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by msman825
If you really want to get to the bottom, FWE is for Flat Worm. Not nudi's Exit. read the sticky up top of forum about dip. and use Lugols I'm sure some folks has had luck with FWE though

I agree 100% with the first statement. If FWE really kills zoa nudis I would think that salifert would start to use this to market their product more.

Regarding the second statement I am still skeptical that some folks have used FWE to target and kill nudis.
 
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