FYI "old timers" and experienced/those who know me may be interested
- Thread starter ostrow
- Start date
Good Luck! It sounds like a solid plan.
I had a slow draining shower and when I went to buy a drain snake I saw at Menards drain snakes w/ brushes to clean pipes after you removed the clog. Maybe that will help clean the drain and return? Your tank is the coolest I've ever seen, don't give up!
I had a slow draining shower and when I went to buy a drain snake I saw at Menards drain snakes w/ brushes to clean pipes after you removed the clog. Maybe that will help clean the drain and return? Your tank is the coolest I've ever seen, don't give up!
moon jelly
Active member
Not sure if I'm an old timer but......Did you try Mexican turbos and/or a foxface? I have had luck with these.
Tank2379
Active member
Marc from Melev's Reef posted a Video on how he removes his Hair Algae or Algae might work for your situation
http://youtu.be/xilqKzoOgBE
http://youtu.be/xilqKzoOgBE
ostrow
It's Dr. Goodluck Himself
I haven't seen that Phosphate Rx. I have done so much manual removal and added first 150 snails, then another 150, then 150 hermits (we are talking over 18 months or so).
I really think I need a "restart" but need to figure out how to do it without danger (fumes) to me and family or danger (cycle) to the fish. Not sure there is a way here....
I really think I need a "restart" but need to figure out how to do it without danger (fumes) to me and family or danger (cycle) to the fish. Not sure there is a way here....
Tank2379
Active member
If you're thinking about starting over doesn't hurt to try that out before tearing all that down. I know you have a big system to work with and probably a lot of SPS also. What do you have to lose at this point?
:beer:
Damn Joel...You really gotta stop living up to your nickname 
I just restarted a 29G tank after a few years off and put dead base rock in it because I did not want to even risk inheriting someone's bugs/algae's. Yes it's going to take a long time to grow-up, but any problems that show up are introduced by me.
If you do tear it down, maybe just consider putting 200 lbs of base rock in there and start over. At least you eliminate a potential root cause.
Good luck fellow old-timer.
I just restarted a 29G tank after a few years off and put dead base rock in it because I did not want to even risk inheriting someone's bugs/algae's. Yes it's going to take a long time to grow-up, but any problems that show up are introduced by me.
If you do tear it down, maybe just consider putting 200 lbs of base rock in there and start over. At least you eliminate a potential root cause.
Good luck fellow old-timer.
Basically, algae grows from phosphates, phospates grow because bacteria will not keep them in check. If your algae is way out of whack and your reading zero phosphates it is most likely that your algae is consuming them faster. So your reading will be zero.
I can think of tons of reasons that algae would get out of control. Rocks like that can hold phosphates/nitrates for a while which won't help, over feeding, under filtering, using tap water, DI resin worn out, Prefilters worn out, sponges holding garbage.
Once it gets to the point you are at it can be drive people out of the hobby.
My advice would be to get to somewhere that you know gives amazing advice. Ask them what they would do. Some of the answers would surprise you. I had a small algae problem on my tank and had great advice. I'll pass some of it off.
1. clean the rock with a pump. I used a 1400 gph pump that I could hold in my palm. Held it in the tank and plugged it in (probably not the best idea). Make sure you get in all the crevices of the rock you can reach. This not only annoys the algae but, it will blast water into holes and make the bad crap move out.
2. Water change sucking the crap out of the water column.
Repeat steps one and two when you see the algae coming back. Sooner or later it won't. Providing the issue is in the rock.
I would stop throwing random things at it like algae fix, vodka dosing etc. You need to focus on bacteria levels. That is what is ultimately loosing the battle. Once you feel like the above is working start slowly. Do not make any drastic changes. Make sure you have plenty of flow. Moving the rock around can cause temperamental tanks to get algae so do not do that. Do not stir the sand bed no matter how much algae is on it. Sooner or later your bacteria will attack it. But, adding all these chemicals is not going to help.
Clean all your filters pads, socks, sponges etc. I soak my filter pads in vinegar for 24 hours every other week sometimes more.
Maybe, just maybe I'd run bio-balls, carbon, and phosphate remover. Changing the carbon and phosphate remover ever 1-2 weeks. The other thing that I would do is look into Prodibio and use the BioClean. I'm not saying use it right away but, consider it once you get the algae off the rock. It is good bacteria that will establish and help clean things in your tank causing issues.
Any way you look at it your not going to have a quick fix. But, I think you already knew that. The tank did not develop these issues over night so it isn't going to be fixed overnight. You will have to put some elbow grease into it and make sure your filters, pumps, etc are running right and doing what they intended.
I can think of tons of reasons that algae would get out of control. Rocks like that can hold phosphates/nitrates for a while which won't help, over feeding, under filtering, using tap water, DI resin worn out, Prefilters worn out, sponges holding garbage.
Once it gets to the point you are at it can be drive people out of the hobby.
My advice would be to get to somewhere that you know gives amazing advice. Ask them what they would do. Some of the answers would surprise you. I had a small algae problem on my tank and had great advice. I'll pass some of it off.
1. clean the rock with a pump. I used a 1400 gph pump that I could hold in my palm. Held it in the tank and plugged it in (probably not the best idea). Make sure you get in all the crevices of the rock you can reach. This not only annoys the algae but, it will blast water into holes and make the bad crap move out.
2. Water change sucking the crap out of the water column.
Repeat steps one and two when you see the algae coming back. Sooner or later it won't. Providing the issue is in the rock.
I would stop throwing random things at it like algae fix, vodka dosing etc. You need to focus on bacteria levels. That is what is ultimately loosing the battle. Once you feel like the above is working start slowly. Do not make any drastic changes. Make sure you have plenty of flow. Moving the rock around can cause temperamental tanks to get algae so do not do that. Do not stir the sand bed no matter how much algae is on it. Sooner or later your bacteria will attack it. But, adding all these chemicals is not going to help.
Clean all your filters pads, socks, sponges etc. I soak my filter pads in vinegar for 24 hours every other week sometimes more.
Maybe, just maybe I'd run bio-balls, carbon, and phosphate remover. Changing the carbon and phosphate remover ever 1-2 weeks. The other thing that I would do is look into Prodibio and use the BioClean. I'm not saying use it right away but, consider it once you get the algae off the rock. It is good bacteria that will establish and help clean things in your tank causing issues.
Any way you look at it your not going to have a quick fix. But, I think you already knew that. The tank did not develop these issues over night so it isn't going to be fixed overnight. You will have to put some elbow grease into it and make sure your filters, pumps, etc are running right and doing what they intended.
ostrow
It's Dr. Goodluck Himself
Well, your first line not necessarily correct, based on many many articles.
Do you know what the purpose of bioplastics/carbon dosing is? It is to boost bacteria. No clue why mine ever would have been low to begin with but anyway.
I posted the question I asked after seeking the amazing advice and trying different approaches for 18 months.
Mike, even dead base rock can leach phosphate right? It needs to be acid-washed rock if I understand right.
Sucks. All my corals are dead though, or near it. So no longer any rush.
Gotta figure out either killing/reusing this rock or starting over. Likely will run bleach through system after rock if out. Hope the fish survive multiple moves....
Do you know what the purpose of bioplastics/carbon dosing is? It is to boost bacteria. No clue why mine ever would have been low to begin with but anyway.
I posted the question I asked after seeking the amazing advice and trying different approaches for 18 months.
Mike, even dead base rock can leach phosphate right? It needs to be acid-washed rock if I understand right.
Sucks. All my corals are dead though, or near it. So no longer any rush.
Gotta figure out either killing/reusing this rock or starting over. Likely will run bleach through system after rock if out. Hope the fish survive multiple moves....
I manually removed all I could, kept lowing Phosphate with Lanthanum chloride and bio pellets. We'll see how bad/if it comes back.
If you tear down the rock , bleach should kill the algae, acid should open up the rock and kill the algae, Soaking in water and lanthanum chloride should suck out the remaining phosphate.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1474839
Good luck, HTH's.
If you tear down the rock , bleach should kill the algae, acid should open up the rock and kill the algae, Soaking in water and lanthanum chloride should suck out the remaining phosphate.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1474839
Good luck, HTH's.
taylor t
New member
If it was me, I wouldn't bleach the rocks. I have a 210, with (2) 40 breeder sump, 20 long RDSB. Roughly 270 gallons liquid+rocks (sump/refuge only half full, 310 gallons glass capacity but again, sump/fuge only half full normal operation), so maybe 220 actual liquid water in the system. I've gone through algae blooms too. What I've done to combat it, I change water, and clean fuge, scrape glass, and when it comes to sand, I suck off the top 1", and add the "live sand" that's wet in the bag to replace. Yes, causes a "mini" cycle, but ends up looking better. I change about 80 gallons to do this (using a tube sucking all crap I can into 5 gallon buckets... lots of time and work...). Then make water again, and repeat a few days later. Stuff looks mad, yep. But, after 3-4 times, then let coast a few weeks, it seems to stabilize. On the second round, I use a gravel cleaner and suck lots of crud out of the sand bed. I've gone as far as sucking the sand out in an area, and replacing with new "live sand" in a bag, the stuff with water. Using MJ1200 for the rocks helps too. It's a lot of elbow grease. Maybe 4-6 hours each round. I don't have much coral anymore (sold/gave away, maybe only a dozen types left), but I have anemone's that are just as demanding as coral, if not, more delicate. They didn't skip a beat. Fish were all fine.
I normally don't use a filter sock, but when I'm in "combat mode", I use one to catch all the floaties/dust. Only "filter" is skimmer, and occasional filter sock. No carbon, no reactors. (2) 2-part dosers. That's it. Bare bones.
One thing that caught my eye (your other post), when I've used pellets/dry food of any kind, I end up with issues. Frozen people grade food seems to be the best, (raw shrimp, scallops seem to be best) just what I've noticed with my stuff.
I know how it feels, but I'd try manually cleaning with large water changes first, before using bleach. Years of bacteria in the rocks isn't something you can buy. Removing all the crap that's built up in the rocks and sand takes work. Best of luck, I know what it feels like. Just another's opinion, looks like you've tried lots of them, just sharing what I've done with my own system, like I said, I know how you feel....
I normally don't use a filter sock, but when I'm in "combat mode", I use one to catch all the floaties/dust. Only "filter" is skimmer, and occasional filter sock. No carbon, no reactors. (2) 2-part dosers. That's it. Bare bones.
One thing that caught my eye (your other post), when I've used pellets/dry food of any kind, I end up with issues. Frozen people grade food seems to be the best, (raw shrimp, scallops seem to be best) just what I've noticed with my stuff.
I know how it feels, but I'd try manually cleaning with large water changes first, before using bleach. Years of bacteria in the rocks isn't something you can buy. Removing all the crap that's built up in the rocks and sand takes work. Best of luck, I know what it feels like. Just another's opinion, looks like you've tried lots of them, just sharing what I've done with my own system, like I said, I know how you feel....
fredfish13
Member
had a similar problem with GHA and some other green algae. i would manually pull it out and siphon. bought snails and etc. i could never take it all out because it was growing in between some corals. it was like this since july. got a foxface a few weeks ago. after 2 days of being in my tank, he basically decimated all the algae in my tank. try one before giving up.
It's a good thing those articles worked for you.
Yes carbin dosing and bio pellets are there to boost bacteria. I'm suggesting that yours got out of whack. And, that is most likely a big issue.
Did you know that you could use straight sugar instead of vodka or whatever else? My point is that after reading more of your responses I'm seeing you respond as if it is a for gine conclusion that you want to take the tank down. Most here are telling you no. It's not the best idea. Good luck though!
Yes carbin dosing and bio pellets are there to boost bacteria. I'm suggesting that yours got out of whack. And, that is most likely a big issue.
Did you know that you could use straight sugar instead of vodka or whatever else? My point is that after reading more of your responses I'm seeing you respond as if it is a for gine conclusion that you want to take the tank down. Most here are telling you no. It's not the best idea. Good luck though!
ostrow
It's Dr. Goodluck Himself
It isn't that.
I have already tried, over 18 months, every single approach, and with patience, that has been suggested. Those with other suggestions (add snails, use Kent TechM) are not responding to my question - a common theme in these forums. Normally for good reason - inexperienced or uninformed folks not realizing other approaches exist.
I may be a lot of things but not inexperienced, uninformed, or impatient in this hobby.
My question is about a drastic approach - for good reason. It's all that is left. The corals are all dead or nearly so. The algae is EVERYWHERE. And it is not poor husbandry - or, at any rate, not in any "duh" way. This battle has been mystifying.
I am not linking all of my old threads. There are a dozen over the past year.
I need guidance on something I have never had to do - mass destruction not only of algae covering my rock but so will not restart - so in tank and pipes - without harming my fish.
It was a specific question for very good reason is all I am saying.
Yeah, I am exasperated. Because I have tried everything and done those things "right". I have a very low nutrient and extremely aggressive and tough algae that does not remove. It is a form of turf.
sh0tyme83
New member
Joel-
I didn't have to do as much rock as you're going to have too, but I did acid bath my rocks for my 28 gallon before starting it up again to remove all the green hair algae I was dealing with. I went and bought Muriatic Acid from home depot and used the recommended dosage instructions that I found on RC. Let me tell you, this is by far the best way to get rid of the algae. Bleach was ruled out because there is always a chance for bleach to be leeched back into the tank. The acid on the other hand dilutes pretty well with water, hence why you can use it in pools. I put water and a full bottle of acid into a big rubbermaid container and put the rocks in one by one wearing chemical proof gloves obviously. I then had a second tub that was just water with the hose constantly running into the container to always have fresh water. Once the acid stopped bubbling, I put the hose into that container and ran fresh water to dilute the acid. Let this run for like 20 mins and just let the water overflow the sides of the container (I did this outside on concrete). Once I could put my hands in the container, I took out the rock and then rinsed them in the 2nd tub and left them out to air dry. The difference was night and day. I'll attach some before and after pictures. Remember that if you do this, the rock will be dead and you will have to reseed your tank.
Matt
The acid I used: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Smart-2x1-Gallon-Muriatic-Acid-2118-HD/100119310
Picture before: Notice the rock in the upper left hand corner was covered with algae.
http://s232.photobucket.com/user/saltnewbie/media/New 28 Nano/P1010045.jpg.html?o=6
During:
http://s232.photobucket.com/user/saltnewbie/media/New 28 Nano/P1010050.jpg.html?o=8
After: So much cleaner
http://s232.photobucket.com/user/saltnewbie/media/New 28 Nano/P1010051.jpg.html?o=5
So far it's been 8 months after doing this and my tank has had no algae return.
I didn't have to do as much rock as you're going to have too, but I did acid bath my rocks for my 28 gallon before starting it up again to remove all the green hair algae I was dealing with. I went and bought Muriatic Acid from home depot and used the recommended dosage instructions that I found on RC. Let me tell you, this is by far the best way to get rid of the algae. Bleach was ruled out because there is always a chance for bleach to be leeched back into the tank. The acid on the other hand dilutes pretty well with water, hence why you can use it in pools. I put water and a full bottle of acid into a big rubbermaid container and put the rocks in one by one wearing chemical proof gloves obviously. I then had a second tub that was just water with the hose constantly running into the container to always have fresh water. Once the acid stopped bubbling, I put the hose into that container and ran fresh water to dilute the acid. Let this run for like 20 mins and just let the water overflow the sides of the container (I did this outside on concrete). Once I could put my hands in the container, I took out the rock and then rinsed them in the 2nd tub and left them out to air dry. The difference was night and day. I'll attach some before and after pictures. Remember that if you do this, the rock will be dead and you will have to reseed your tank.
Matt
The acid I used: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Smart-2x1-Gallon-Muriatic-Acid-2118-HD/100119310
Picture before: Notice the rock in the upper left hand corner was covered with algae.
http://s232.photobucket.com/user/saltnewbie/media/New 28 Nano/P1010045.jpg.html?o=6
During:
http://s232.photobucket.com/user/saltnewbie/media/New 28 Nano/P1010050.jpg.html?o=8
After: So much cleaner
http://s232.photobucket.com/user/saltnewbie/media/New 28 Nano/P1010051.jpg.html?o=5
So far it's been 8 months after doing this and my tank has had no algae return.
I hope I didn't come off as rude. It wasn't intended that way. I also did not intend to imply that your husbandry is lacking or that you are uninformed. And, you are right that people on here that offer advice are sometimes not informed. You are obviously very frustrated and at your wits end. You've probably spent countless hours researching and battling this. I was just telling you what I have had to do on my tank and several others tanks to control algae.
Every tank has it's own character. Which is probably best know by you. Ultimately you have to decide.
Here is what I would do if I wanted to restart.
I would get rid of everything. Trash all sand and vinegar all rock. Run bleach or vinegar in the tank to clean the pipes. And literally start new. Its not only a chance to start new but, upgrade items that need it. Change layouts that you think are beneficial. And, generally do things you would have done but, didn't want to cause the tank was full.
Good Luck.
Every tank has it's own character. Which is probably best know by you. Ultimately you have to decide.
Here is what I would do if I wanted to restart.
I would get rid of everything. Trash all sand and vinegar all rock. Run bleach or vinegar in the tank to clean the pipes. And literally start new. Its not only a chance to start new but, upgrade items that need it. Change layouts that you think are beneficial. And, generally do things you would have done but, didn't want to cause the tank was full.
Good Luck.
powderbluetangy
New member
Why would you take your whole tank apart?
If your problem isnt phosphates, you are NO limited. most of the evil nuisance algae can be solved with KN03 dosing.
If your problem isnt phosphates, you are NO limited. most of the evil nuisance algae can be solved with KN03 dosing.
ostrow
It's Dr. Goodluck Himself
Nope. Not this stuff.
All my SPS are dead. Old-timers here know what it must mean when I say that. I NEVER remove a seemingly dead coral, because 99% of the time there is a surviving polyp that restores the colony stronger than before.
My SPS are dead. Done.
Why not tear apart to rid of algae with finality?
But want to do it as rapidly as possible. I may need to just replace. But may try a dark tank for a couple months....
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