Gas bubble disease cure?

[DanEnglish]

I know there is some debate about the cause, but I was wondering what people thought about as the best cure. I had one of my four kudas start floating upside down a the top of the tank, with its pouch (it is a male) full of gas. I inserted a 30g needle into the pouch and gently squeezed several large bubbles out and now he is acting normal.

Just wanted to see if other people have had success with this. As long as the puncture heals and he does not get an infection I assume he will be OK.

 

[DanU]

There is a difference between pouch emphysema (air in the pouch) and Gas Bubble Disease for the purposes of IDing them and treatment. Both are preventable to a large degree. I have handled many of these cases on our help line. A very high percentage of these cases we resolve by looking for ways to reduce organic loading on the tank or system. I would venture to say well into the high 90 percent category.

Needle puncture of the pouch is rarely necessary. Simply tickling the opening with a blunt Bobbie Pin or catheter and opening it, tilting the seahorse with very gentle manipulation expels the air without the need to create a wound. The danger with the wound is the potential for an infection externally or internally in the pouch lining.

In terms of the Pouch Emphysema, this is sometimes a single event. Once the air is expelled, they sometimes continue on their merry way without re-occurrence. In some cases you end up with multiple instances of it. Once the pouch is deflated it happens again in a very short time and continues this path. In these cases it is critical to find the underlying cause and resolve it while the animal is in a hospital tank with clean water. Sometimes flushing the pouch with clean sterile seawater helps. Some recommend Diamox flushes but our experience has found clean water flushes are just as effective.

Dan

 

[DanEnglish]

Thanks for the info. A few years ago I had a different seahorse with air in the pouch and was able to manipulate it gently as you described and successfully got the air out. In this instance, I was not able to release the air through that method, and did not want to apply excessive pressure and cause other damage. Obviously causing a puncture wound is the last resort, but it definitely did not seem like the situation would resolve itself.

What do you define as high organic load? I have 4 adult kudas in a 100g tank with a skimmer rated for over 200g. The only other inhabitants are a catalina goby, two urchins, a bunch of snails and crabs, a few mushrooms, a couple zoas and some pulsing zenia. I haven't tested nitrates recently but I will ASAP.

 

[rayjay]

I agree with Dan that you shouldn't pierce the seahorse pouch but rather "tease" the pouch opening open to allow the gas to escape upwards and out of the pouch while holding it upright under water.
As for determining "high organic load", I don't think you will get much indication of this by testing with hobby test kits because I think it is more than just high nitrates/phosphates type of thing so that you could have low readings but still have problematic water.
In my case I usually just assume I have water problems and start doing more frequent and larger water changes and paying more attention to siphoning out unseen trapped debris from around rock/plant/decor.

 

[TamiW]

So Dan is certainly right about high organic loads usually being the problem, but the specific mechanism is unknown. As rayjay points out, it's not something that is easily testable. A redox meter might give some clues, but I've never actually put that to the test.

Some seahorses also seem more prone to it, and once they get it, it keeps reoccurring. Those seahorses are probably best treated with acetazolamide.

However, really go over your tank with a fine tooth comb for possible causes, or you could treat him and have it come back again. First, look at the flow rate in your tank. is it high enough? Or are there areas detritus could settle? The "old" way of keeping seahorses was with a trickle of flow, but they really need decent water turnover to keep the overall tank healthy.

I agree with others, don't use a needle. Get an iv catheter with the needle removed - you will be able to tease the pouch open that way. There is too much risk of infection with a needle.

 

[DanEnglish]

He is fine 3 days out. I will post later this week how he is doing. Next time (hopefully not!) I will try teasing the opening more. Working on the organic load issue...

 

[DanU]

Hopefully he will continue to do fine. Quite often, Pouch Emphysema (PE) is a single occurrence. In these cases it is no big deal.

I do have to applaud you for having a light stocking density. It creates a more natural look and environment for the seahorses. Usually ends up a healthy tank and seahorse life expectancy goes up.

When I refer to the organic load, I am referring to both dissolved and non dissolved organics within the tank. Dissolved organics will normally be in the water column and the skimmer can pull a lot them out. Non dissolved may be both in the water column and trapped in different places. Normal tests that we do on our tanks won't necessarily indicate that you have excesses in the tank. Theoretically, you can have 0 ammonia, nitrites and nitrates if the microbial population is high enough.

The problem with organic loading is something has to eat the organics in order for it to go through nitrification and de-nitrification. In systems with a high organic load there is normally a higher population of bacterial and protozoa. Doesn't have to be the pathogenic type or have the pathogenic gene turned on. Bacteria and protozoan are opportunistic and it doesn't take much for the flora to change to pathogenic types.

When I trouble shoot a system for organic loading, I look at the whole system, size, flow, filtration scheme, protein skimmer, substrate and rock, amount of feed and what is being fed, tank mates and cleanup crew etc. Sometimes it is obvious and other times it takes some digging to uncover the source.

A lot of old info recommends low flow for seahorse tanks. We find, higher flow, roughly a minimum of 10 turns per hour or more results in a much healthier tank. The seahorses become stronger, are typically more active and the flow helps wash everything through the filtration.

Substrate can sometimes be an issue especially with course substrates such as crushed coral. These allow a build up of detritus. Becomes a problem quicker in low flow tanks.

Sounds like you made a good choice with the protein skimmer. I am guessing you probably have it in a sump. Keep in mind, the protein skimmers efficiency or ability to pull stuff will be related to the turn over rate in the tank, how clean you keep the riser tube (depending upon design, skimmers can lose anywhere from 20 to 50% efficiency when the riser tube gets dirty) and of course how you have it tuned.

Filtration pads and sponges can hold a lot of gunk if they are allowed to sit to long without cleaning or changing.

I have also seen live rock really gunked up. This is usually a result of either too low flow or poor circulation through it. The worst areas are usually out of sight or in the middle of a dense pile.

Given the stocking density, I really would not expect a problem with organic loading especially in the first couple of years. If this turns out to be a single instance, I probably wouldn't mess with much unless you see something obvious. If it becomes a repetitive issue, then I would look long and hard at the system.