Genocide to the Sea Turtle?!!? W T $%$ !!!

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Justin74

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You all remember those awe inspiring footage and films that show the Sea Turtle's long navigation to the beaches to lay there eggs? Then to see the baby turtles face a plethora of natural predation just to have a handful out of thousands actually make it back to the ocean to do it all over again? RIGHT?!! Now, look, they don't even get that chance anymore...

I've attached pictures for your viewing horror...
For shame Costa Rica...




:mad2:


-Justin
 

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Poacher's stealing the egg's ? Now that's just sick and wrong.
Or
Are they taking them to incubate them ?
What's up here Justin ?
 
Paul: Tylt33 nailed it...

Your gut's and instincts ring true. Regardless of their motives, it's poaching to me and you. Also like Tylt33 eloquently put, a lack of foresight. So much so that there passing this unfortunate skill/tradition whatever you want to call it to there young, and with that, it'll only continue for future generations til Im sure there is nothing to continue..

But man, just when you thought the life of the Sea Turtle was perilous in itself....


-Justin
 
I saw that show too. And if I'm not mistaken,in that particular country, people are allowed to collect for a very short period of time - like a day or so. Turtle egg collection has been going on even before any of us were born.

This is nothing different from the over harvesting of fish, seahorse and corals in some parts of the world.

In some parts of the philippines, public education, propagation of corals, and strict regulation on seahorse collection seems to help.
 
I can understand why people might not like the pictures above. However, I want to present another viewpoint.

I just want to first say that I have no clue what's going on in that picture. Are they collecting the eggs to eat or or they collecting the eggs for incubation. I don't know the local laws, the economic situation, or anything about those pictures. But here another point of view.

It's only poaching if it's illegal where they are located. Without knowing their local law, it is hard to say whether it's poaching or not. On my last Channel Island scuba trip, there were a very few members of our group who disliked the fact that there were some of us (me included) who enjoyed spearfishing. All the fisherman ate what they killed. I had my license and kept within my limits. Just because a few person didn't like it, it doesn't make me a poacher. I followed the law. BTW - I am sure the same people would have gladly eaten fish in restaurants that are harvested by large commercial ships that have collateral damages in their nets.

It's also easy for us to find those pictures "reprehensible" when we are not starving and not wondering where our next meal will be. If my family was constantly starving, I really don't give a damn how many turtles there are in the ocean. Being raised by parents who grew up in a poor third world nation, I was taught to eat every part of an animal. When we had chicken, we ate everything down to the bone. When you throw away your turkey carcass this Thanksgiving, think about how much meat is still on that turkey. To me, that is more "reprehensible" than someone taking turtle eggs to feed their starving family. To be honest though, the older I get the more Americanized I am getting and the more food I throw away. Also - are we going to start criticizing these people for using wood burning stove to cook their food and contributing to the green house effect, while we contribute to the green house effect by keeping our fish tank?

Anyway - just another point of view.
 
i've watched some show that they've been doing this for a long time. why are you shocked?

First of all I didn't see that show.
Second- I would think that the Sea Turtles were protected from this kind of harvesting.
But hey what do I know ?
Not that much it seem's
 
Isn't it amazing how stepping back and viewing events from another perspective can radically change your opinion? As people that have lived privaliged lives (as Americans) its important not to assume that everyone else is as blessed, perhaps than we will begin to take stock in what we have. Thank you for sharing your opinion, and im pretty sure every other parent here would do the same. When it all comes down to it, its life.

I can understand why people might not like the pictures above. However, I want to present another viewpoint.

I just want to first say that I have no clue what's going on in that picture. Are they collecting the eggs to eat or or they collecting the eggs for incubation. I don't know the local laws, the economic situation, or anything about those pictures. But here another point of view.

It's only poaching if it's illegal where they are located. Without knowing their local law, it is hard to say whether it's poaching or not. On my last Channel Island scuba trip, there were a very few members of our group who disliked the fact that there were some of us (me included) who enjoyed spearfishing. All the fisherman ate what they killed. I had my license and kept within my limits. Just because a few person didn't like it, it doesn't make me a poacher. I followed the law. BTW - I am sure the same people would have gladly eaten fish in restaurants that are harvested by large commercial ships that have collateral damages in their nets.

It's also easy for us to find those pictures "reprehensible" when we are not starving and not wondering where our next meal will be. If my family was constantly starving, I really don't give a damn how many turtles there are in the ocean. Being raised by parents who grew up in a poor third world nation, I was taught to eat every part of an animal. When we had chicken, we ate everything down to the bone. When you throw away your turkey carcass this Thanksgiving, think about how much meat is still on that turkey. To me, that is more "reprehensible" than someone taking turtle eggs to feed their starving family. To be honest though, the older I get the more Americanized I am getting and the more food I throw away. Also - are we going to start criticizing these people for using wood burning stove to cook their food and contributing to the green house effect, while we contribute to the green house effect by keeping our fish tank?

Anyway - just another point of view.
 
i've watched some show that they've been doing this for a long time. why are you shocked?

Because I dont run everything that shocks me in my life past you first to discern whether or not my emotion is valid? Or is it the likely event that this is news to me, and quite possibly news to someone else.

I mean this is the forum for exchanging news and thought provoking dialogue regarding saltwater life? Correct? If everything watched and knew the same thing would there be such a thing as news? Or even a reason to talk? Gimmie a break :spin3:

Thank you for your honesty regarding personal accounts past and potential Minh, a very undeniably valid point of view. Were all in the chain, and if it's the difference between life or perishing, I'd be first in the sand box with my shovel :p

The only thing that I've witnessed through news/documentaries were that they were getting hunted for there fins for turtle soup and such, but that's where my knowledge ended and ignorance to this egg business began. Obviously!

But knowing what I know, I personally am saddened. But as I get older and the more I find out more (with just about everything) it's just plain sad. Then I get mad. I have a handful of topics that I could rant about but this just happens to be "on topic" and wont be so quick to get shut down like some of the other things I've posted. Things that I found horrifically news worthy and felt bound by my sense of humanity to let you guys know about. Some of you vets can remember Im sure ;)

Another point to consider, we all know this is seasonal. If it was question of starving, what are they doing the other 11 months out of the year?


I can only speak from speculation but it seems that they assume collecting these eggs are not a problem due to the sheer abundance. But do they know that they're only one of the few stops in the world? Probably not. Awareness is key, they probably have more of a profound respect for the earth than most of us. Im sure they would be down for a alternative resource if it was a viable option. Hopefully smarter people than me will present one, or be in a more integral position to help.

-Justin
 
I'm with Justin on how easily outraged I can get about humans ecological damage, but we all have to be more careful about responding before we get all the facts. I pulled this from snopes
http://www.snopes.com/photos/animals/seaturtles.asp
For all of us, from all perspectives, we need to at least attempt to fact check the information we receive these days. From the news programs we watch, the websites, e-mails, talk radio, or news print. If you fact check them and find them to be inaccurate often or predictions/ forecasts tend to prove false... then the source is no longer credible.
I'm not pointing a finger at Justin, but thought this might serve as a learning experience for all of us. I saw those pictures and thought the narrative to be completely plausible.
 
Excellent research, Kelly. And excellent conservation project.

The posts also made me wonder about something else, since the Costa Ricans appeared to be reasonably well dressed for the beach and didn't appear very hungry.. According to this website: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_pop_bel_pov_lin-economy-population-below-poverty-line the Costa Ricans have a 16% poverty rate compared to 14% in the UK and 12% in the US. By comparison, Haiti is 80% and South Africa is 50%. The Costa Rican 16% figure agrees with a 2009 number from Wikipedia. Their GDP per capita is ~$11k. That may sound a bit low, but there are many, many countries below $2k.

In other words, some of the posts were a touch on the racist side.
 
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Kelly - thanks for the info.

Ron - I fail to see how some of the posts were racist. I don't know if you consider my post to be racist or not, but it really doesn't matter to me. If it's Justin's post that you consider racist, I disagree. Justin is probably one of the least racist people I know. He is just passionate about saving the environment (minus those cancer stick that he uses to pollute the air. :bum: ) and the picture struck a nerve.

Ron - thanks for the stats. However, statistics do not always tell a full story. Lets take yours for example. In the US, the poverty level is 12%. However, in the some part of the Appalachian Mountains, the poverty level is MUCH higher than 12%. Although I don't know the actual percentage poverty level in the Appalachian mountains, it is estimated anywhere up to 40%. Now if someone in the Appalachian mountains went and poached a deer to feed his family, I would be much more understanding than if my neighbor went and poached a deer. Stats can be manipulated to to serve a person's need.

Speaking of the Appalachian, you should view the 2020 documentary by Diane Sawyer called A Hidden America: Children of the Mountains.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qW_XdT6jCNg&feature=related
 
Always kills me when the first to mention racism towards any ethnicity is a white guy :lol2:

Anyway, glad you found more to the story Kelly. But it's still a far cry from being deemed an excellent conservation project Ron!!

They are not conserving anything. At all. They're merely "legally" taking what they project(key word here) would be damaged anyway, by the turtles own lack of finesse and destructiveness leaving the nest; Or, those lost to natural predation.

Per snopes own comment the investigation determining the overall effect on the population is still ongoing.

You know, kinda like what BP says about the tons of crude that miraculously disappeared. It's a miracle!! BUT!!(Investigations are ongoing..)


-Justin
 
I know minus the coughing nails..or is that coffin nails :x
I'll be the first to admit, I am a walking contradiction.
But my heart is good:love2:


-Justin
 
I wouldn't make assumptions about my ethnicity. One of the most persecuted races is white. My Grandfather fled Germany during WWII and returned with the US Army as an interpreter.

By allowing them to take the eggs that would be destroyed anyway they're then having them patrol and prevent the eggs from being poached for the days that follow then protecting the baby turtles on their way back into the ocean. Sounds like a conservation effort to me.

Ron
 
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