Getting REALLY frustrated

[PDAlber]

So, I'm getting to the point where I'm ready to just break everything down and sell it all off. It seems like I just keep dumping more and more money into my tank, but I'm not getting a good return on my investment. I need some ideas that might help me come up with some solutions. My tank is a 90-gal Oceanic Tec series with an Outer Orbit fixture that includes 2x250 MH and 4x48" T5's. I'm running Phoenix 14k MH's (2 mo old) and 2 ATI Blue+, an ATI Purple+, and a GE 6500 (all 6 mo old). I have a 29-gal sump divided into 3 sections: fuge, return, skimmer. The skimmer is a Vertex IN100 and the return is a Mag 9.5. I also have two reactors with GFO and carbon. For flow in the tank, I have two Evo 1050's on a wave timer and two Evo 750's. I dose BRS 2-part (recipe 1) with 2 BRS dosers. My parameters remain fairly steady Cal 400, alk 8.5, mag 1350, sg 1.026, and ph 7.9-8.1.

My phosphate READS 0 on a Hanna Checker, but I suspect it is the source of my troubles. I struggle to grow any SPS in my tank. I have three Monti's of various color that are all faded. I have a couple of Acros that look "OK" but they don't grow. I have been watching a Green Slimmer melt away. I get minimal coraline growth. I'm guessing that phosphate is the source of the slow growth, poor color, and minimum coraline. I know its the source of the algae and red slime that grows on some my rocks. The problem is, I can't figure out where its coming from. I hardly feed my fish and I generally rinse the food before I do. I've checked the (RODI) water in my top-off container and got 0.02 ppm, which doesn't seem like much. Could it be leaching out of my rocks? Some of the rocks get A LOT more algae growth than others. I really get very little on the glass.

What am I missing here? Could there be something else that is adversely affecting my SPS? I have several LPS colonies and a large clam that due fairly well, though they don't grow like they used to. Any ideas? I was thinking of replacing the algae covered rocks when I do a water change tomorrow.

 

[carlosngloria]

How long has your tank been up? How long do you run the lights for? Have you got your phosphates checked at your local fish shop?

 

[AquamanE]

I've checked the (RODI) water in my top-off container and got 0.02 ppm, which doesn't seem like much

Most of what you are mentioning sounds good, but the above quote I dont understand. What does that mean? 0.02 ppm what?. Top off should be fresh water with ZERO TDS.

 

[Bandomo]

Yeah, I'm pretty stumped. I read your entire post and it seems that your on the right path. I agree that .02 TDS isn't the end of the world, but as Eddie mentioned, shoot for 0. After all, Sediment/Carbon/DI filters are relatively inexpensive to replace. I guess my only question would be: How old/mature is your tank? From experience, having "perfect parameters" (especially when dealing with SPS) means nothing unless you have a mature tank.

Regarding Red Slime: Even thou it seems you have plenty of flow from your description above, try rearranging your flow pattern so its a little more aggressive towards your rocks. Especially the part where the Red Slime is taking over. From my experience, Red Slime is a product of nutrient rich water along with lack of flow or dead spots.

MOST IMPORTANT: Once you reached a point of frustration, its time to walk away! Seriously, frustration overpowers success on any given day. If you reached a point where you feel like trowing a brick dead center at the tank, just walk away and leave it for another day. Don't try and fix everything at once. Pick an issue and start chipping away one at a time. If you dedicate 30 minutes a day, I assure you, by the end of the month, you'll have a banging tank.

 

[Southreef]

Carlos has some good questions. If your tank is relatively new, you may just be going through a natural cycle of cyano and diatom bloom.

I too have a 90 gallon and was not impressed with my tank's nitrate levels and coral growth. My sump is a Aqueon Proflex 4 sump, I run a SWC 180 skimmer, Aqua UV 15 watt sterilizer, run a top off with kalkwasser and perform weekly 20 gallon water changes with reef crystal salt mixed to 1.024.

I give you all of these stats because to me they were fairly impressive on paper but in reality they did very little for the health of my coral and fish. My nitrate levels were 5 to 10 ppm, sg at 1.024, mg 1320, ca 465ppm, PO4 undetectable. In my sump I was running the lights at 24 hours a day with chaetomorpha algae. Here is what I changed:

#1: Reverse photo period:

My chaeto was doing ok with 24 hours of lighting but when I switched it to reverse photo period I noticed an increase of growth and my PH levels in the tank stayed relatively stable

#2: Sump Flow.
I run a chiller from the third chamber of the sump. I used to have both the pickup and return in the same chamber of the sump. I moved the return of the chiller water to the 1st chamber of the sump which consequently increased the flow through the chaeto that is in the 2nd chamber of the sump. The chaeto growth has absolutely skyrocketed. (I know this may be a little hard to picture but reread it a couple of times! ) I'll add pictures as soon as I get home.

My nitrate has gone from a steady 5 to 10 ppm to 0.2 to ZERO ppm thanks to my hungry chaeto!!!!!

The colors and growth of my sps have gone into orbit compared to what they used to be!

#3: Lighting.

My suggestion is to spend a ton of time reading about various lighting options here on reefcentral. I started my tank with t5 lights but quickly learned that there are many finer points to lighting. Unfortunately, I would recommend spending more time and money on lighting than on anything else in your tank. As far as return for money spent this is where you'll find the highest amount of satisfaction. Believe me, I have literally spent thousands of dollars chasing bad advice. This is something you need to research and study and make an informed decision on. In no way do I mean to offend you, I am just speaking from my own experience and bad luck.

There are a lot of little things that can make or break your tank. Don't give up yet as you will surely start to see the return on your investment soon.

I'm in Boynton too and I have just recently overcome the desire to scrap my whole attempt at saltwater due to lackluster results. PM me your contact info and I'll give you a call. I would like to come check out your tank and maybe give you some guidance on where to make changes to help your reef prosper. Good luck and remember that this is supposed to be fun!

 

[tmulrney]

Most of what you are mentioning sounds good, but the above quote I dont understand. What does that mean? 0.02 ppm what?. Top off should be fresh water with ZERO TDS.

I think 0.02ppm is the number after testing phosphates in the RODI, not the TDS.

 

[tmulrney]

I had a similar situation in my one year old 220gal tank. Parameters, flow, husbandry were all great but I had lack luster corals and cyano. After wracking my brain for weeks, it finally dawned on me that my RODI filters had not been changed a year. I checked my TDS and the meter read 65.
I changed the filters and immediately after next large water change ( I mix my own salt so I had been adding blah water to my tank in large volumes ) I saw a difference.
Worth a peek at the TDS meter on your RO.
Good luck!

 

[Bandomo]

I had a similar situation in my one year old 220gal tank. Parameters, flow, husbandry were all great but I had lack luster corals and cyano. After wracking my brain for weeks, it finally dawned on me that my RODI filters had not been changed a year. I checked my TDS and the meter read 65.
I changed the filters and immediately after next large water change ( I mix my own salt so I had been adding blah water to my tank in large volumes ) I saw a difference.
Worth a peek at the TDS meter on your RO.
Good luck!

You bring up a great point, I had much better success once I started to mix my own saltwater!

 

[PDAlber]

Most of what you are mentioning sounds good, but the above quote I dont understand. What does that mean? 0.02 ppm what?. Top off should be fresh water with ZERO TDS.

Sorry. I tested for phosphate in the water that had been sitting in my top-off container. I got a reading of 0.02 on my Hanna checker. It is 0 TDS coming out of my RODI.

 

[PDAlber]

How long has your tank been up? How long do you run the lights for? Have you got your phosphates checked at your local fish shop?

The tank has been up for about three years. I run the MH for 7 hours, the T5's for 11. The coral doesn't get the full benefit of the T5's because the euro-bracing partially obstructs the lights. I have not had the water tested for phosphates recently at the LFS. I tend to trust my own reading over the kid at the store and the Salifert test I have matches up with the Hanna.

 

[PDAlber]

Southreef, I used to run kalk in my topoff, but I was getting a ton of precipitation in my sump and I was still having to supplement with 2-part. I switched to just using 2-part and ran an airline from outside into my skimmer intake. This seems to have cured the precipitation problem and stabilized my ph. I have always run a reverse light cycle on my sump and the cheato used to grow like crazy. Not anymore. Its seems like between the GFO and the algae in the display, there's nothing left for the chaeto.

As for the lighting, I'm pumping 700+ watts into a 90. The coral should be growing out of the tank. I was running to 6-bulb Tech light before this fixture, and have really seen no change in growth and color. I've been running the Outer Orbit for about six months.

 

[nivram]

It is possible your rocks are leeching something.

The tank has been up for about three years. I run the MH for 7 hours, the T5's for 11. The coral doesn't get the full benefit of the T5's because the euro-bracing partially obstructs the lights. I have not had the water tested for phosphates recently at the LFS. I tend to trust my own reading over the kid at the store and the Salifert test I have matches up with the Hanna.

I'm no expert, but 11 hours seems to be a long photoperiod for the t-5s. You may be giving them too much light. I would shorten the photoperiod. This might also help with some of your algae issues. Speaking of algae, pull out as much as you can by hand. Also how often are you changing out the GFO?

Sorry. I tested for phosphate in the water that had been sitting in my top-off container. I got a reading of 0.02 on my Hanna checker. It is 0 TDS coming out of my RODI.

Test the tds of the water in your ato container.

Just curious, what livestock do you have in the tank?

 

[bolo7735]

First, replace that GE 6500 T5. You don't need it since you have your primary MH light. Use the T5 to accent your tank. I would use another purple in the mix. You running the 6500 bulb for 11 hours plus 7 hours on MH is too much. I have my blue LEDs on for 15 hours but primary photoperiod is 7 hours max. Too much light will either bleach or make your coral look pale. If your water TDS is not good the extra lighting will cause crazy growth in algae. Everything else seems to be fine. It could be something subtle that is causing problems.

Marvin makes a good point. SPS do not like Nitrates. You need to make sure you are not having Nitrate issues.

 

[tmulrney]

Agree with cutting back photoperiod.

 

[Biggar]

If you have been running this tank 3 years, was there a problem the 1st 2.5 years?

Something changed recently.

Maybe more frequent, larger water changes will help short term.

 

[nismo_32]

Eliminate posibilities. If you think it's the phosphates like the rocks leeching something. I use phosbuster from caribsea. Works pretty good to remove phosphates fast. If you notice a change after using this for like a week then it's your phosphates if you don't it's probably something else.. Also if you should be growing coraline after 3 years running. This is usually what I do. Just a suggestion. Good luck...

 

[PDAlber]

If you have been running this tank 3 years, was there a problem the 1st 2.5 years?

Something changed recently.

Maybe more frequent, larger water changes will help short term.

The tank has been running for three years and I have never been able to get substantial growth from SPS. I have some coraline growth, just not a lot.

 

[PDAlber]

Ok, this morning I did a water change and removed/replaced the rocks that were constantly covered with algae. I had a bunch of live rock that I used from another tank. I also siphoned out as much red slime as I could. I switched the GE 6500 for an extra ATI Blue+ that I had. I'll also try cutting back on the photo period and we'll see what happens.

BTW I do regular water changes with NSW I collect at Boynton Inlet or when I'm offshore diving.

 

[jcw]

bugs...

 

[blackthunda77]

You might want to check for red bugs, aefw, or monti eating nudis. If all your water parameters are inline then its usually some kind of pest. atleast thats what i have noticed in my tank. Im currently recovering from aefw and some of the sps are regaining colors but some are still struggling.