GFI's & Grounding Probes
- Thread starter 1boatnut
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BeanAnimal
Premium Member
You really should be using a GFI.
However, you need to be aware of a few things.
1) You really should not put the entire tank on a single GFCI receptacle or circuit breaker. A single trip (nuisance or faulting equipment) will bring the whole tank down. You should use multiple GFCIs so that you can segregate your critcial equipment.
2) A ground probe should NEVER be used unless ALL of your equipment is GFCI protected. You create a very dangerous situation that would not otherwise exist.
3) GFCIs DO have a fairly significant failure rate and MUST be regularly tested.
However, you need to be aware of a few things.
1) You really should not put the entire tank on a single GFCI receptacle or circuit breaker. A single trip (nuisance or faulting equipment) will bring the whole tank down. You should use multiple GFCIs so that you can segregate your critcial equipment.
2) A ground probe should NEVER be used unless ALL of your equipment is GFCI protected. You create a very dangerous situation that would not otherwise exist.
3) GFCIs DO have a fairly significant failure rate and MUST be regularly tested.
sowellj
New member
like bean said, gfi w/out grounding probe is bad news.
My tank leaks voltage from a multitude of sources, some of which appears to be induced. It is on a GFI, but no grounding probe, as this would result in erratic trips of the GFI. No harm comes to the inhabitants as the tank is not grounded thus there is no path for current to flow. Its not ideal, but, it is what it is. I just wear rubber soled shoes to be on the safe side if I know I am going to be working in it.
My tank leaks voltage from a multitude of sources, some of which appears to be induced. It is on a GFI, but no grounding probe, as this would result in erratic trips of the GFI. No harm comes to the inhabitants as the tank is not grounded thus there is no path for current to flow. Its not ideal, but, it is what it is. I just wear rubber soled shoes to be on the safe side if I know I am going to be working in it.
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
Think you got it backwards
A GFI WITHOUT a grounding probe is perfectly fine.
A Ground Probe WITHOUT FULL GFI protection can be deadly.
sowellj
New member
Think you got it backwards
A GFI WITHOUT a grounding probe is perfectly fine.
A Ground Probe WITHOUT FULL GFI protection can be deadly.
Yep, I am apparently a bit dyslexic today. It comes and goes, along w/other things.
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
More than you likely wanted to know:
http://beananimal.com/articles/electricity-for-the-reefer.aspx
In short: The probe can create a fault situation that does not easily exist without it.
Example: Energized reflector hanging above tank. You put your rubber shoes on and lean into the tank, touching the reflector with your neck as you lean in. Current now has a path through your heart to the ground probe. Without GFCI, you die. If the probe was not present, there would be no easy path to ground.
http://beananimal.com/articles/electricity-for-the-reefer.aspx
In short: The probe can create a fault situation that does not easily exist without it.
Example: Energized reflector hanging above tank. You put your rubber shoes on and lean into the tank, touching the reflector with your neck as you lean in. Current now has a path through your heart to the ground probe. Without GFCI, you die. If the probe was not present, there would be no easy path to ground.
Syncere
New member
A question about #1. Is there anything I can do if I only have one gfci unit behind the tank to prevent a total tank crash? The next outlet is about 3 feet away and I know extension cords are a big no-no. Can I use anything else or should I just extend the cords of the equipment?
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
You can't put GFCI devices in series... I would say replace the receptacle with a standard one and then plug GFCIs into it... but I don't know what other downstream receptacles are protected by that GFCI so the advice may create danger in other areas.
preef
New member
:eek2:
You need to figure out where your tank is leaking current and fix the problem. If you're tank is tripping the GFI with a ground probe installed take that as a warning that something is wrong. Wearing rubber soled shoes is not an acceptable solution.
GFI outlets can be wired so the rest of the circuit is also GFI protected or only the GFI outlet is protected. Your choice at installation.
bean, so what you are saying is that rubber shoes are useless?
gweston
New member
My wife would prefer that I live in a rubberized/padded room, but that is another matter entirely.
Syncere
New member
[/QUOTE]GFI outlets can be wired so the rest of the circuit is also GFI protected or only the GFI outlet is protected. Your choice at installation.[/QUOTE]
Ok thanks. I did make sure to do that. So if I decide to use the second outlet as a precautionary step so that not everything turns off if it does trip, would a power surge be out of the question just so the cord length does not have to be stretched so much from the equipment?
Ok thanks.
I did make sure to do that. So if I decide to use the second outlet as a precautionary step so that not everything turns off if it does trip, would a power surge be out of the question just so the cord length does not have to be stretched so much from the equipment?BeanAnimal
Premium Member
No.. everything protected by the GFCI loses power if it trips. That means all receptacles connected to the LOAD side of the GFCI are protected by the GFCI and lose power when the GFCI sees a fault.
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
No not at all.
I am saying that if you use a ground proble without fully protecting the ALL of the equipment in the system with GFCI protection, then you are creating a danger that did not otherwise exist.
Salt_in_MyBlood
New member
Extension cords are not necessarily a bad thing, just make sure you buy a heavy duty one. With 14 guage wire minimum, 12 guage would be better. look for one made for air conditioners, they are usually only 3' and use 12 ga wire.
Like bean says, you have to know what other receptacles are on that circuit. My apartment was wired on a friday afternoon of a long weekend....... one circuit has 6 receptacles included in that is one gfci in the bathroom and the receptacle the fridge is plugged into and three lights all on a 15 amp glass fuse. Another fuse in the panel has nothing feeding off it. luckily dont plan on staying long....
Like bean says, you have to know what other receptacles are on that circuit. My apartment was wired on a friday afternoon of a long weekend....... one circuit has 6 receptacles included in that is one gfci in the bathroom and the receptacle the fridge is plugged into and three lights all on a 15 amp glass fuse. Another fuse in the panel has nothing feeding off it. luckily dont plan on staying long....
Reefer Brian
In Memoriam
Can you explain your theory, I dont understand and I am an electrician...
A grounding probe will work by itself, it dosent need a GFI to "work properly".
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
A ground probe does not need a GFI to "work" it needs a GFI to work safely.
As I stated above, take a very simple scenario where you have a ground probe in your tank and NO GFI protection. You have a reflector that has become energized due to a fault. The reflector does not pass current because it has no path to ground. You touch the reflector while wearing rubber shoes and do not get shocked, because there is no path to ground. You then put your arm into the tank and as you lean in to scrape algae, your neck touches the ENERGIZED reflector. Current travels from your neck, through your arm, into the water and then to the ground probe. You die because you did not have GFI protection. You would NOT have been shocked if you DID NOT have the ground probe in the first place! You would not have been shocked if you used GFI protection AND the ground probe.
Secondly, electricity does not follow the easiest path to ground, it follows ALL paths to ground in proportion to the resistance of each path. Just because you have a ground probe in the tank, does not mean that it will clear a fault and trip the breaker. If you also become a path to ground with an arm in the tank (wet feet, or touching something metal like a pump housing, grounded reflector, etc) you can easily be killed even though the ground probe is passing MOST of the current. Why do you think in addition to being bonded, pools and hot tubs MUST have GFI protection. The "ground" probe is only part of the protection and MUST be used in conjuction with GFI protection, PERIOD. Not to be rude, but this is not something that it up for debate, it is basic electrical safety and something that needs to be understood by anybody considering using a ground probe.
We can come up with numerous scenarios where a ground probe (that is run without GFI protection) creates a danger that did not otherwise exist.
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Hydrologist
New member
Is there a way to test that the ground probe will be tripped by the GFI?
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