sassyfrassy
New member
do all the larger gobies (watchman, sleeper. etc.) require a DSB?
gobies
- Thread starter sassyfrassy
- Start date
sassyfrassy
New member
Why will no one answer me? Is it a stupid question???
LobsterOfJustice
Recovering Detritophobe
Not a DSB but they will appreciate some sand.
Luiz Rocha
Salty Dog
If you want to recreate their habitat as accurately as possible, then yes. How deep the sand bottom should be will depend on how big the species is. But I have seen some gobies do well in bare bottom tanks if the rocks on the bottom have some small caves in them.
And no question is a stupid question, people are just busy playing the fish ID game
And no question is a stupid question, people are just busy playing the fish ID game
sassyfrassy
New member
I have about 1" crushed coral for ease of vacuuming - I will have DSB in fuge. I have ample caves & hiding places because I used rubble to support base pieces to hopefully not have dead zones. I will definitely have a blenny.
sassyfrassy
New member
So I can have say 1/4 front corner section w/3" sand slopping down to 1" CC which would actually look nice, but would that be a good idea?
sassyfrassy
New member
How big is your tank?
LobsterOfJustice
Recovering Detritophobe
Sand would be much better than cc.
sassyfrassy
New member
Well if all sand (fine aragonite?) would it be OK to have configured like I said above w/1/4 bottom area about 3" sloping to 1" in rest of tank?
LobsterOfJustice
Recovering Detritophobe
It's not going to stay, its gonna do whatever.
sassyfrassy
New member
Well then should I just bite the bullet & go w/DSB in DT? I've been so confused on DSB - are they stable, will they crash in 3-4 years, etc. Then Paul obviously has an extremely successful and long lived tank w/ UF of all things! My fear of DSB was what prompted me to go w/CC in DT (which I can vacuum) and a DSB in fuge. It's not that I don't think they are beneficial - I'm sure they are w/so many people using them. Just very confused!!!
LobsterOfJustice
Recovering Detritophobe
I think you're skipping over SSB (Shallow sandbed). Just there for asthetics and for your goby to play around in. If you use something like aragamax seaflor special grade you can still vaccuum it. Or, if you get a finer sand, waste tends to settle on it rather than in it, so you can siphon it off, or suspend it with flow and filter it out.
Paul B
Premium Member
Sassyfrassy. For your original guestion the answer would be, no, you do not need sand or a DSB for watchman gobies. My 5 watchman gobies all grew up in my tank and are spawning every few weeks. I never showed them a tank with a DSB so they don't miss it.
You don't look confused
One little guy grew from this
To this
You don't look confused
One little guy grew from this
To this
sassyfrassy
New member
Great pictures! What substrate are you using and how deep? I heard they are jumpers - if you have an open tank how do you keep them from jumping out?
sassyfrassy
New member
Paul, you have all that LR in your tank and it's apparently well balanced. Do you think the RUGF also benefits your tank, and in what way? Do you have a sump or refugium? I know you don't have a skimmer. I've got to move my tank over so I've got to drain most of the water. Since I'm going that far, I could change out my substrate and/or put in a RUGF while the tank's drained. Is there an advantage of dolomite over CC? I asked the LFS about ordering a UGF and he acted like I was crazy - said ancient technology! But just because the technology is old doesn't mean it isn't good. I'm just unclear of the advantages other than keeping the bed clean. The UGF is $55. so I need a good reason to get it.
Paul B
Premium Member
Sassyfrassy, first off I do have a skimmer. It is a 5' home made model that I built.
As for the "reverse" UG filter it is actually new technology the way I use it. UG technology is technology from the early fiftees.
You only have a few choices when it comes to substraits, DSBs, SSBs BB or UG or RUGF.
I am probably the only one on here out of 15,000 people who runs a tank this way so my opinion may not mean much. :hmm2:
What I feel are the advantages is this system can be maintained to run forever.
If it is maintained it can not crash. Age does not bother it.
But there is some maintenance involved.
Even running very slow and filtering the water before it goes under the gravel there will still be a slow build up of detritus in the gravel. For a while, this will actually make the system better but eventually you will need to stir up that gravel or it will clog.
About 4 or 5 times a year I stick a canister filter in there (I use a diatom) and stir up where I can reach without taking out any rocks. I kind of powerwash around everything and blow strong jets of water into the pores in the rock because they need maintenance also. This is very important.
Also, whenever I re aquascape, which I do every few years, I stir up those places where I could not reach and suck out the detritus with the canister filter. Sometimes I want to move some rocks on one side of the tank so I remove them and clean up under there.
You do not have to clean up under every rock all the time. I have only removed all of my rock once in 40 years to clean. The other time I did that I just moved the rock to one side and cleaned under there, then I moved the rocks to the other side and cleaned that. The gravel never clogged but I am sure there were places that could have used more circulation. Nothing works forever without maintenance, not even us.
A shallow sand bed can also be maintained in this fashion and would be my second choice if I had to change.
I think the stirring up of everything including blasting the rocks is one of the main reasons my tank has never crashed and my nitrates are under 5.
I have even gone five days with no electricity and nothing happened.
If a large fish or anemone does, nothing will happen as this system seems to have a large capacity for an overabundance of organic matter. This has happened to me a few times. Once a large carpet anemone died and fell apart all over the tank. I just diatomed the water and forgot about it. Another time 25 purple sea urchins all spawned at the same time. (I used to have an urchin collection business) The skimmer over flowed over 5 gallons and the water looked like whipped cream. Nothing happened.
So obviousely I like my very slow running UG filter. UG filters have a very bad name in salt water because they are never used correctly. Instead of trying a different way to run them, people just forgot about them for newer systems.
DSBs were invented and many people set them up. They do work fine.
I just have a few problems with them and I am not satisfied with the answers.
IMO, they can not work for long because as I said they have a lifespan and can't be maintained. If you will be moving in a few years a DSB may be in your future.
That detritus and dead bacteria trapped in a DSB will be there forever. It will clog and the lower layers will get no water flow. No flow equals no treatment.
A DSB works because of the worms and other sand sifting creatures living through out it. These creatures will eventually cease to multiply in the numbers needed to function.
I am fairly sure that if you could find a 7 year old DSB and drill a hole in the bottom of that tank, no water would leak out.
That is just my opinion but I also like the fact that I can make a typhoon in my tank which happens in the sea many times a year. That is what re juvinates a reef.
So remember, 15,000 people will disagree with me so I may not be the one to emulate.
Good luck with what ever you decide.
Have a great Thanksgiving
Paul :dance:
PS, I don't have a sump or refugium but for the last 4 years I have an algae trough
Ask him how old his tank is
As for the "reverse" UG filter it is actually new technology the way I use it. UG technology is technology from the early fiftees.
You only have a few choices when it comes to substraits, DSBs, SSBs BB or UG or RUGF.
I am probably the only one on here out of 15,000 people who runs a tank this way so my opinion may not mean much. :hmm2:
What I feel are the advantages is this system can be maintained to run forever.
If it is maintained it can not crash. Age does not bother it.
But there is some maintenance involved.
Even running very slow and filtering the water before it goes under the gravel there will still be a slow build up of detritus in the gravel. For a while, this will actually make the system better but eventually you will need to stir up that gravel or it will clog.
About 4 or 5 times a year I stick a canister filter in there (I use a diatom) and stir up where I can reach without taking out any rocks. I kind of powerwash around everything and blow strong jets of water into the pores in the rock because they need maintenance also. This is very important.
Also, whenever I re aquascape, which I do every few years, I stir up those places where I could not reach and suck out the detritus with the canister filter. Sometimes I want to move some rocks on one side of the tank so I remove them and clean up under there.
You do not have to clean up under every rock all the time. I have only removed all of my rock once in 40 years to clean. The other time I did that I just moved the rock to one side and cleaned under there, then I moved the rocks to the other side and cleaned that. The gravel never clogged but I am sure there were places that could have used more circulation. Nothing works forever without maintenance, not even us.
A shallow sand bed can also be maintained in this fashion and would be my second choice if I had to change.
I think the stirring up of everything including blasting the rocks is one of the main reasons my tank has never crashed and my nitrates are under 5.
I have even gone five days with no electricity and nothing happened.
If a large fish or anemone does, nothing will happen as this system seems to have a large capacity for an overabundance of organic matter. This has happened to me a few times. Once a large carpet anemone died and fell apart all over the tank. I just diatomed the water and forgot about it. Another time 25 purple sea urchins all spawned at the same time. (I used to have an urchin collection business) The skimmer over flowed over 5 gallons and the water looked like whipped cream. Nothing happened.
So obviousely I like my very slow running UG filter. UG filters have a very bad name in salt water because they are never used correctly. Instead of trying a different way to run them, people just forgot about them for newer systems.
DSBs were invented and many people set them up. They do work fine.
I just have a few problems with them and I am not satisfied with the answers.
IMO, they can not work for long because as I said they have a lifespan and can't be maintained. If you will be moving in a few years a DSB may be in your future.
That detritus and dead bacteria trapped in a DSB will be there forever. It will clog and the lower layers will get no water flow. No flow equals no treatment.
A DSB works because of the worms and other sand sifting creatures living through out it. These creatures will eventually cease to multiply in the numbers needed to function.
I am fairly sure that if you could find a 7 year old DSB and drill a hole in the bottom of that tank, no water would leak out.
That is just my opinion but I also like the fact that I can make a typhoon in my tank which happens in the sea many times a year. That is what re juvinates a reef.
So remember, 15,000 people will disagree with me so I may not be the one to emulate.
Good luck with what ever you decide.
Have a great Thanksgiving
Paul :dance:
PS, I don't have a sump or refugium but for the last 4 years I have an algae trough
Ask him how old his tank is
