Goldflake Angel...
- Thread starter Orca Lady
- Start date
ccampbell57
Premium Member
I honestly believe that GF angels in reefs with no other aggressive or semi-aggressive fish thrive. In FOWLR or mixed reef, they dont fair so well.
Out of the 25+ angels I have owned these are the most finicky...
Out of the 25+ angels I have owned these are the most finicky...
flameangel88
New member
Jason & Chris, thanks for the info so now I know what to expect. Nonetheless, it will not be easy.
Ryan, the GF when through 2 rounds of Prazi but due to its sensitivity to Prazi I was probably light-handed on the dosage whereas with Cupramine I'm usually on the heavy-hand side.
Tim, it may very well be Prazi is not killing the parasite fully and the need to try something different. Unfortunately this will be my last GF for a long time and hope someone else getting one would document if they are going in a different direction with treating internal parasites. I did have thought of needling the GF to see if its a possible gas issue but seeing the nature of its weakness I don't think it will survive such a move even if I use Maracyn to disinfect afterward.
I agree that GF and Bandit are difficult but I find it very differently between them. I've lost 4 Bandits in the past and at least 3 of them I attribute it to decompression issues and they die within weeks not months as GFs are. Within couple of days receiving them bloods coming out through the scales and infection of redness all over the body been my experiences with Bandits whereas with the GF has just been bulge.
Ryan, the GF when through 2 rounds of Prazi but due to its sensitivity to Prazi I was probably light-handed on the dosage whereas with Cupramine I'm usually on the heavy-hand side.
Tim, it may very well be Prazi is not killing the parasite fully and the need to try something different. Unfortunately this will be my last GF for a long time and hope someone else getting one would document if they are going in a different direction with treating internal parasites. I did have thought of needling the GF to see if its a possible gas issue but seeing the nature of its weakness I don't think it will survive such a move even if I use Maracyn to disinfect afterward.
I agree that GF and Bandit are difficult but I find it very differently between them. I've lost 4 Bandits in the past and at least 3 of them I attribute it to decompression issues and they die within weeks not months as GFs are. Within couple of days receiving them bloods coming out through the scales and infection of redness all over the body been my experiences with Bandits whereas with the GF has just been bulge.
roktsintst
New member
Well, Now my GoldFlake is showing some strange swiming behavior. Bumping into the glass and the rocks. His Fins are a little more jaged than they used to be, but the good thing is, He is still eating.
Im wondering about a few things. I Am gonna try to QT the goldflake and administer Prazi and see if I notice a change which would indicate some sort of parasite.
Also, Sitting in front of the tank thinking about it, I began OZone a few weeks ago, and that is around the time I started to notice some different behavior. Kevin, Chris, others... Can you guys relate the use of OZone to the akward behavior of your Goldflakes???
Im wondering about a few things. I Am gonna try to QT the goldflake and administer Prazi and see if I notice a change which would indicate some sort of parasite.
Also, Sitting in front of the tank thinking about it, I began OZone a few weeks ago, and that is around the time I started to notice some different behavior. Kevin, Chris, others... Can you guys relate the use of OZone to the akward behavior of your Goldflakes???
flameangel88
New member
Ryan,
I don't run ozone but I do run uv. My GF's bulge is slight bigger than yours on the above picture but more on one side. When I noticed your GF that's why I inquired about if it was that fat all the time and I didn't think much when you said it's been in over a year. I'm surprised that out of the blue it would start having a balance issue. Did you notice any changes prior to this even the slightest change besides adding ozone?
Kevin
I don't run ozone but I do run uv. My GF's bulge is slight bigger than yours on the above picture but more on one side. When I noticed your GF that's why I inquired about if it was that fat all the time and I didn't think much when you said it's been in over a year. I'm surprised that out of the blue it would start having a balance issue. Did you notice any changes prior to this even the slightest change besides adding ozone?
Kevin
roktsintst
New member
I thought the same thing. Within just a few days, I have noticed significant changes. I even asked my brother and my wife if it seemed different, and they both agreed that it did seem to be swiming funny.
Im hoping a little Prazi would do the trick.
It just doesn't make much sense that, through many different GoldFlake keepers, in different systems, That Goldflakes seem to lose their ability to swim after months of stability.
Is it a slow acting parasite, or are we as GoldFlake keepers not adding some element to our systems that the goldflakes are used to in their natural environment adn it takes months to have adverse effects on the fish???
Im hoping a little Prazi would do the trick.
It just doesn't make much sense that, through many different GoldFlake keepers, in different systems, That Goldflakes seem to lose their ability to swim after months of stability.
Is it a slow acting parasite, or are we as GoldFlake keepers not adding some element to our systems that the goldflakes are used to in their natural environment adn it takes months to have adverse effects on the fish???
Feed them some medicated food. Ryan if yours is still eating would you try it?! The prazi hasn't seem to do the trick because most of the people with problems have already used prazi on the fish. I would use food medicated with metronidazole. IMO its worth a shot... There are some foods out there by jungle I believe that are already medicated but you can make your own too.
Liveaquaria deworms fish using "frozen food soaked in praziquantel, metronidazole, and piperazine."
http://www.liveaquaria.com/general/general.cfm?general_pagesid=425
http://www.liveaquaria.com/general/general.cfm?general_pagesid=425
jnc914
Active member
I run ozone with no issues to any of my fish.
Kevin-How are you running the ozone? I run mine through my skimmer and attach a bag of carbon to the outlet of the skimmer and a bag of carbon on the air outlets on the top of the collection cup to catch any extra ozone. Sometimes if excess ozone is leaking into the system, your fish will have labored breathing, erratic swimming, and it can also indirectly lead to the ragged looking fins and in some cases HLLE.
Kevin-How are you running the ozone? I run mine through my skimmer and attach a bag of carbon to the outlet of the skimmer and a bag of carbon on the air outlets on the top of the collection cup to catch any extra ozone. Sometimes if excess ozone is leaking into the system, your fish will have labored breathing, erratic swimming, and it can also indirectly lead to the ragged looking fins and in some cases HLLE.
flameangel88
New member
Jason, I think you meant to ask Ryan about how he runs the ozone. I know my lfs runs the ozone through the skimmer and pretty sure he runs carbon as well.
Do you think the GF is more susceptible to the ozone than the other fish with swim problem and ragged fins where the other fish doesn't exhibit any sign? I could see the above issues but isolated to just the GF is a bit strange. My first impression of Ryan's GF picture appeared to have a bulge (but felt inappropriate calling out other member's fish and not knowing anything about their fish or system at the time) and mine is slightly bigger than that. The strange thing is that bulge developed in matter of days and the GF was eating and swimming normal just prior to the bulge.
Kevin
Do you think the GF is more susceptible to the ozone than the other fish with swim problem and ragged fins where the other fish doesn't exhibit any sign? I could see the above issues but isolated to just the GF is a bit strange. My first impression of Ryan's GF picture appeared to have a bulge (but felt inappropriate calling out other member's fish and not knowing anything about their fish or system at the time) and mine is slightly bigger than that. The strange thing is that bulge developed in matter of days and the GF was eating and swimming normal just prior to the bulge.
Kevin
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jnc914
Active member
I wonder what they use as a binding agent and if they use anything to assist in getting the fish to actually eat the food with all those meds in it.....I have read that they are not particularly appealing to the fish's palate.
roktsintst
New member
Thanks for the Response Tim.
I will definitly Try it. I'll Order the food off the Site today. I do have a few questions however.
1. Are you thinking the Ozone has an effect?
2. Would you suggest administering Prazi again?
3. I still havn't got the Goldflake out of the Display (450 gallons). Do I need to have the fish in an isolated invironment to feed the medicated food, or will it have no negative effect on the other fish in the display?
4. I have another Emeror 280 hang on back filter coming in the mail. My main QT is being used by my Trio of paracentropyge multifasciata adn I dont want to disturb them. Are my chances better by getting the goldflake into a 55 QT using display tank water to start and a new filter, or taking a few weeks of running the filter on the QT and then trying to add the GoldFlake?
I really appreciate the help and Hopefully we, together, can figure this out!!!
roktsintst
New member
I Started Running Ozone again about a month ago. My orp is around 350 now and I do run Carbon on the output. Oh and it is ran through my Skimmer. I Turned off the Ozone this morning to see if it had any effect. My Goldflake has a few of the symptoms listed in an overdosing of Ozone (Which is why I initially asked!)
I'll keep the thread updated on how stoping Ozone effects the GoldFlake.
Also... I have had the Goldflake for a year in one week now, and I havn't added a fish for months. You guys dont think it could be flukes do you???
roktsintst
New member
I am thinking that it is possible Goldflakes are less tolerant of Ozone use, But Im not sure. This could be a good test. If me stopping teh use of Ozone, effects teh GoldFlake in a positive way, that could be a good Start!!!
Kevin, I have also been looking at old pictures of the Goldflake and the Stomach is much larger than it once was.
This is from 4/22/09
Last Week
I don't know if it is an ozone thing... kevin doesn't run it. But yours does look more tattered than kevin's.
If things get worse maybe after the food I would probably try prazi again, but IMO it won't do the trick, but it can't hurt I guess.
The food won't effect the other fish.
I wouldn't put the fish in a sterile QT without an established filter despite the water being cycled, too much of a risk to have water quality go haywire. But if you can do lots of water changes it would be ideal to have the fish isolated, but the move may be stressful. If you have a sponge or something that has been in the display water for a while I would add that to the new filter to be used on the 55 QT.
I would probably feed the fish the medicated food, if no improvement I would isolate the fish in the 55 QT. This way you can get it set up and ready for the fish if it needs to be moved.
If things get worse maybe after the food I would probably try prazi again, but IMO it won't do the trick, but it can't hurt I guess.
The food won't effect the other fish.
I wouldn't put the fish in a sterile QT without an established filter despite the water being cycled, too much of a risk to have water quality go haywire. But if you can do lots of water changes it would be ideal to have the fish isolated, but the move may be stressful. If you have a sponge or something that has been in the display water for a while I would add that to the new filter to be used on the 55 QT.
I would probably feed the fish the medicated food, if no improvement I would isolate the fish in the 55 QT. This way you can get it set up and ready for the fish if it needs to be moved.
roktsintst
New member
Thanks Tim.
Just to clarify, I can add the Medicated food to the Display with no Ill effect on my other fish, Correct???
Just to clarify, I can add the Medicated food to the Display with no Ill effect on my other fish, Correct???
LobsterOfJustice
Recovering Detritophobe
Off the wall thought here, but I'm kind of thinking in the other direction... Most of the fish mentioned have been treated with praziquantinel. Maybe something about this medicine harms them internally?
Or maybe something about captive diet compared to wild - something either causing swelling of internal organs such as liver (as jeremy mentioned), or something that they digest funny causing gas?
I remember Recty has this issue with a scribbled. If I remember correctly, he cut it open after it died and the bulge appeared to be gas.
Or maybe something about captive diet compared to wild - something either causing swelling of internal organs such as liver (as jeremy mentioned), or something that they digest funny causing gas?
I remember Recty has this issue with a scribbled. If I remember correctly, he cut it open after it died and the bulge appeared to be gas.
jnc914
Active member
Very interesting thought......I have often thought that maybe the quick die off of internal parasites is actually harming the fish. Although I would think that the fish would just pass the parasites with its waste. I think it definitely needs to be researched as to if we are causing harm with the diets we are providing and/or the medication we are administering to these fish.
I don't know what LA DD does, but I have added meds to food by thawing Ocean Nutrition gel cubes in the microwave just enough that they start to melt. I mix in the medication, then allow the food to reharden. All of my fish like ON cubes, and will usually take food in this doctored and reconstituted form.
