Goldflake Angel...

[tcmfish]

Won't hurt your other fish, correct.

I wonder what is producing gas inside the fish or what organ can produce the gas. Maybe in the event one of your guy's fish doesn't live, you could freeze it and then cut it open. The reason I say freeze it is if the fish isn't frozen and you cut it open then the gas will leave and that area will collapse, but if it is frozen then hopefully the bulged area would stay bulged allowing you to identify where the gas is accumulating.

 

[jmaneyapanda]

Won't hurt your other fish, correct.

I wonder what is producing gas inside the fish or what organ can produce the gas. Maybe in the event one of your guy's fish doesn't live, you could freeze it and then cut it open. The reason I say freeze it is if the fish isn't frozen and you cut it open then the gas will leave and that area will collapse, but if it is frozen then hopefully the bulged area would stay bulged allowing you to identify where the gas is accumulating.

Many terrestrial animals have a plethora of microorganisms in their guts (or foreguts) that will assist, or even create digestion. Often times, they will "ferment" certain items and create gasses. Whether this could be the case in marine fish I dont know. There has never really been a bioassay done of a GI tract on a marine fish, that I know. But, with the speculation that copper can cause such "gut wipeouts", I wouldnt doubt they have quite an intense flora and fauna in there.

 

[roktsintst]

Very interesting thought......I have often thought that maybe the quick die off of internal parasites is actually harming the fish. Although I would think that the fish would just pass the parasites with its waste. I think it definitely needs to be researched as to if we are causing harm with the diets we are providing and/or the medication we are administering to these fish.

I have also thought about that, But It was treated over a year ago. That is just too long to have a residual effect.

I completly agree about doing some research too. Im gonna try a few different things and pass along what I find!

 

[roktsintst]

Won't hurt your other fish, correct.

I wonder what is producing gas inside the fish or what organ can produce the gas. Maybe in the event one of your guy's fish doesn't live, you could freeze it and then cut it open. The reason I say freeze it is if the fish isn't frozen and you cut it open then the gas will leave and that area will collapse, but if it is frozen then hopefully the bulged area would stay bulged allowing you to identify where the gas is accumulating.

Thanks Tim! I'll try it as soon as the Metro shows up.

Im willing to try anything to help understand this better, But I may need some guidance doing an autopsy...

 

[roktsintst]

Well I just got done with an hour long bath in ParaGuard. He didn't panick in the bath at all, he even ate some flake food in there. I put him in the frag tank in order to have easier access to him.

I havn't noticed much change in appetite. The biggest changes are jaged fins and awkward swimming...

 

[david pinder]

have had 3 goldflakes and 2 blue line 2 scribbles all with the same results. Will not buy any more they do great but sooner or later the same thing. Go from being a pig to quit eating overnight. Did get one to eating again on live clams but a month later he too went down for the count I do have 15 other angel fish that have survived1 to 3 years and more than 150 fish in my system. I just think these fish require more than we give them. I too would love to hear if someone has had success with these and what their doing

 

[roktsintst]

That is interesting you noticed the same thing with the BlueLIne's and the scribbles.

The weird thing is mine is still eating fine...

 

[tony varrell]

Guys I apologize if my comment is not technical enough for the conversation but I will offer it anyway. I find it is critically important to supplement your GF'S diet with a large amount of sponge and believe it or not alo vera. Because they as you all have said proudly " eat anything I throw in the tank" does not mean they are eating correctly. I would attribute most of the issues described as a long term diet deficiency and not a mysterious parasite or a negative reaction to ozone.

My GF is going on 3 years old.

 

[tcmfish]

Nice fish! I also thought about diet...

One question though.... why alo vera? Is there a method to the madness :lol:

 

[roktsintst]

Thanks for the thoughts Tony.

There is sponge in my tank that the GF hasn't touched...

 

[jnc914]

Aloe Vera???? Further explanation please.

 

[NexDog]

Could it not be swim bladder problems? Not being able to swim upright would be indicative of this. I had an Emperor Angel succumb to this and towards the end it would swimming on its side. Swim bladder disease can be caused by parasites, nutritional deficiency, bacterial infection due to water quality, physical trauma or be genetically predisposed to the disease. I would say with the GF it's nutrition related.

Is there a dry-food product that has a high concentration of sponge? I think my Emperor died for this very reason.

 

[roktsintst]

If it is Nutritional, Im not sure what else I can feed. I feel NLS pellets w/ thera a, a variety of flakes, nori, broccoli, brine, mysis soaked in selcon, vita chem, and garlic. And I feed 4+ times per day...

I am more than willing to try something else if anyone has any other suggestions. I understand the sponge, but i have sponge that is un touched in the tank, so If it needed the sponge, it is there to consume...

 

[tcmfish]

It may not eat that sponge. Hikari makes an angel formula with a lot of sponge in it compared to other products. I'm still waiting on a reply about alo vera, though. I find that interesting.

 

[stunreefer]

ON Angel Formula contains sponge as well. I have several species of sponge in the tank that hold my bandit angel and he destroyed one specific species within a few days yet hasn't touched any of the others.

I'm going to have to grab some of that Hikari too though - the bandit isn't overly fond of the ON so I have to trick him and feed it first

 

[tony varrell]

Hi Guys. On my aloe vera recommendation, I have asked the freind of mine who recommended it's use to prepare a biological reason why it is beneficial so I can post it here. He is the Dean of Marine Biology at the University Of Miami so it might take a while. If I tried to explain it it would sound like junk science. I know it has a lot to do with how the fish digest our food. I use it for all my angels just which is a decent collection. I'll come back when I have his reply I can post here..

 

[caad3]

Wow very interesting information. I was so close to getting a goldflake as I just loved the way it looked.

 

[flameangel88]

I can see nutrition deficiency attributing to health issue but I only received this fish on October 9th. It wasn't skinny at the time so I wasn't extremely concerned with it not eating. It finally started to eat pellets on 11/2 in QT and once it was in the DT on 11/18 pellets became the main diet.

I thought about whether if the QT had an issue but prior to QT the GF, a 3.5" Blueline and 3" Coral Beauty came out of there and both are eating flakes and pellets in the DT. The GF was QT with a Venustus together and they started to eat prepared food around the same time which the GF ate pellets the Venustus ate flakes.

I'm curious as to how many folks purchased a GF without any problem in the past 12 months? I hope folks reading this thread that purchased one in the past 12 months would post their experiences. I think this will give us a better picture. Thanks in advance.

 

[Outerbank]

I bought a beautiful Goldflake angel about 9 months ago. He was about 3 inches and ate brine shrimp with aggression at the LFS. He looked great. I placed him in the QT and everything was going great for about a week when he began to develop a "bulge" near his anus. This bulge grew larger and likely caused an bowel obstruction, infection, then death. The fish stopped eating and hid in the back of the QT. I never saw it poop. I have some suspicion that the fish was caught in deep water and had decompression issues. It is just a thought and I have no proof. This experience seems different from others, but I suspect some decompression issues may manifest at later dates.

When I fish for sport and food, fish caught in deepwater will often eviscerate some bowel through the anus. This eviscerated bowel can revert back into the abdomen, but likely would cause damage. I suspect this was possible with my fish.

Good luck to everyone with GFAs! They are stunning fish!

 

[flameangel88]

Outerbank--did you treat the GF with Prazi?

I'm curious as to why the bulge only develop in some cases within a week to 1 month in our tank where it didn't develop while in the holding tank or at the lfs? Is it possible low doses of copper used by vendors/lfs keeping it contained?

I've been skeptical but am open to the possibility about Prazi is not enough to kill internal parasites thus the bulge start to develop. My GF went through 2 rounds of Prazi and as I said earlier I may have been light handed with the dosage as the GF didn't react too well on the first round causing a 25% WC and re-dosing.

I'm sorry for not posting this earlier but I share the same sentiment as some of the senior members here about getting jinx when posting new addition too early. I was going to post this in the Regal thread but felt it was relevant here while we are on the subject of the bulge. A little over 7 weeks ago I received a Regal angel approximately 4.5" which I was surprised the vendor would ship a fish with a small chunk of anus area missing and the first 2 anal spines are exposed. The fish was not eating certainly got me worried. I'm not sure if it was an injury due to other fish or a infection/parasites but I immediately treat it with Maracyn 2 and after the first round (7 days) I didn't see much improvement and a bulge started to develop so I went to do a second round of Maracyn 2 and first round of Prazi (6 days) and the bulge started to reduce during the second round of Prazi. By the third day of the second round of Prazi the Regal started to nip and spit small frozen mysis. Few days later it took whole pieces of mysis and by the 5th week of QT it started eating pellets. Since adding to the DT the Regal appears to take pellets as its main diet along with grazing live rocks. I do believe that Prazi works when the bulge is caused by internal parasites and the bulge on the GF, Scribbled or other angels we've discussed may be caused by something else.

I honestly didn't think the Regal had much of a chance when I first received it with a small chunk of meat missing but it was swimming fine. I don't think the Regal is out of the woods yet but the fact that it's eating gives me hope.

Here's a picture when it was first introduced on 12-22

after being released on 12-25

and on 1-3-10