Goldflake Angel...

That is a Great lookin Regal Kevin! Besides the chunk of skin missing...

MY GF has never looked bad to me except for his wierd swimming and his fins being a little tattered. He is swimming much better after a paraguard dip for an hour, and he is still heating like a hog. I was going to treat w/ maracyn 2 in a few weeks and see if that has any kind of effect on him... As well as feed food w/ some metro in it.

I think there may be some headway to make in the sponge department. The natural sponge diet could possibly help the digestive tract of some angels. Without a steady diet of some kind of sponge, the GI tract slowly looses efficiency/effectivness causing a swellign of some part of the GI Tract which in turn could get infected/ make it so the fish can not digest food so it doesn't eat. And either the not eating, or the extra pressure in the intestines of the fish cause the swim bladder not to work properly...
Any thoughts???

Does anyone who has lost a fish to the "Bulge" recall any sign's on the fish's body? marks, sores, fin rot???
 
Wow Kevin, it is great to see that regal come around!! I don't know what the deal is with the missing chunk. I hope it continues to do well.

I am not sure what kind of bulges everyone is discussing on this thread. My fish may have had something different. It had a bulge, more towards one side, where Kevin's fish is missing some flesh. I find that interesting. I suspect mine had an internal abscess and possibly ischemic bowel which is a death sentence unless you can drain it or cut it out. I debated on antibiotic treatement and in hindsight I should of tried maracyn.
 
Thanks Ryan. Glad to hear your GF is eating well. I don't have the answers but would like to throw out a question. I can accept the idea that sponge has effect on the digestive track but if this is the case then why we are not seeing bulge in Bandits where it's very similar to GF--deepwater and sponge diet?

I still like Tim's idea of cutting the body open to see if there's a air pocket (after freezing first to preserve the pocket if indeed there's gas there). Not looking forward to it but I'll do it when the time comes.
 
Thanks Scott. The bulge on the Regal was more prominent on one side and by by middle of the second round of Prazi the bulge resided pretty quick and the angel started to eat which lead me to believe it was internal parasite. The only thing is I never saw any white stringy coming out but rather some big dark poops in the tank. Other than the missing chunk the Regal is coming out more and more with each passing day but for some reason prefers pellets more than frozen.
 
flameangel88 said:
Thanks Ryan. Glad to hear your GF is eating well. I don't have the answers but would like to throw out a question. I can accept the idea that sponge has effect on the digestive track but if this is the case then why we are not seeing bulge in Bandits where it's very similar to GF--deepwater and sponge diet?

I still like Tim's idea of cutting the body open to see if there's a air pocket (after freezing first to preserve the pocket if indeed there's gas there). Not looking forward to it but I'll do it when the time comes.
Click to expand...



I definitly dont have the answers or the research to back it up. Im merely trying to throw ideas out and see if there is any other thought on the topic.

With regard to the Bandit, I have never kept one and dont know much about them. However, I thought i remember reading that they ahve a natural diet of sponge. My thought was that because this is so well advertised, people are making sure to feed sponge to bandits while not considering it necessary to feed a high volume of sponge to other angels as well... Just a thought!
 
Jeremy, Do you have any thoughts on the sponge Idea? Also, With your collection of Angels, what do you feed? Any sponge supplement?
 
Im not convinced that sponge is "critical". I did have rampant sponge grow in cryptic areas of my tank, and whenever a coral or rock was removed, ALL the angels would go nuts for it. But it was 0.000001% of their staple diet. Im sure they would do "better" with it, but Im not convinced they "need" it. That being said, I do feed a wide variety of diets, and a LOT of algaes (nori, spirulina, ogo, etc).

As for, the "bulge", I do think it is likely diet related. However, I wonder if its more along the lines of fatty liver disease. The liver is more on the ventral aspect of the fish, but, should it very fatty impair metabloic activity, or even enlarge to the point of putting pressure on the swim bladder, stomach, etc. If someone does do a necropsy on a fish they lose, a fatty liver should be pretty obvious, along the bottom of the fish. Livers are typically dark brown black, but fatty livers are very whitened.
 
roktsintst said:
I thought i remember reading that they ahve a natural diet of sponge. My thought was that because this is so well advertised, people are making sure to feed sponge to bandits while not considering it necessary to feed a high volume of sponge to other angels as well... Just a thought!
Click to expand...

The point is well taken.

Does anyone know how much sponge is in the frozen food? I've been feeding the past couple of years with Angel & Butterfly Diet as part of the staple but not sure if that has enough sponge in there to make a den on their diet. I'm very curious. All my Bandits eat frozen and pellets except the new one still in QT would only eat live clam on half shell.
 
The food I found with the most sponge in it was the angel formula by hikari, but that was a few years ago, there may be a better food now. If anyone has Matt Wittenrich's breeder's book, he has a nice picture of a yellow watchman goby with fatty liver disease in it dissected.
 
I just contacted Hikari about a food that is very high in sponge, so i"ll let you know what they say!

Tim, I dont have that book. Is there any way you could post some pictures?
 
Here is the food:

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+7927+8038+8886&pcatid=8886&r=579

And here is a pic of the book:

P1100028.jpg
 
Ryan--please post reply when you get it.

Tim--thanks for the picture. I feed Angel & Butterfly Diet mostly because the fishes seem to like that more than the Mega-Marine Angel for some odd reason as I usually see the Hikari flowing last while all the other food has been eaten. But the 2 nearby lfs doesn't carry the Angel & Butterfly Diet and when I run out I get Hikari from one of the lfs. However, they do seem to take the Mega-marine Algae well. Go figure.



Thanks for all the various inputs here!
 
Kevin, I just got an Email from Hikari saying their best product w/ the highest amount of sponge is the Mega-Marine Angel... Im gonna have to find some and give it a try.

Oh, and Tim - I got the formula for the medicated food and Im feeding it now. I'll post back on the Results

I also did a FW dip today w/ the GF. He didn't like it at all but i left him in for 10 minutes. I didn't find any Flukes which I was happy with, but he had a lot of stingy poo. But It was a regualar dark color poo, it was just stuck to a string...
 
Update

Update

GF was eating pellets again last night and tonight but won't touch any frozen. Happy to see him eating again.

Picture I just took but can't seem to get a good picture of the bulge.
DSC_5122-1.jpg



I also have some pictures of the Regal angel that I just took and was eating pellets also.
DSC_5090.jpg


DSC_5091.jpg


DSC_5106.jpg


DSC_5112.jpg
 
Pictures look Great Kevin. And it is great to hear that your GF is eating some again.

But that wound on your Regal looks nasty. Does it seem to be healing?
 
Thanks Ryan. I'm not positive if the Regal is getting better but for sure for sure it's not getting worst and not as nasty as when it first arrived.

I've done 14 days of Maracyn 2 and 2 rounds of Prazi while he was in QT. I'm not sure what else to do at this point. He's cruising the tank and seems settled in and comfortable and eating pellets very well. I've keep a close eye for couple of weeks and in the mean time if anyone have any suggestions I'm certainly open to it. Why can't we get a 'Perfect' specimen a little more often. :(
 
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