Goniopora problem!!!!

[pex]

Believe it or not, Gonipora like dirty water. I was told this by a very experienced reefer and did not believe him...but I was proven wrong. I had one in my last tank and it was explosive for the first 2 months and then started to die off. I ended up tearing down the system several weeks later and sold off all of the corals except for the Gonipora. Because there was nothing in the tank, except for it and a few fish, I let the tank go. As the water got dirtier the Gonipora got healthier looking. Basically what I am saying is that the systems that good reefers maintain are just too "clean" for this species. Just like Ripley's....believe it or not.

 

[Denbf58]

http://www.goniopora.org/ try this site has a lot of good info good luck

 

[Peter Eichler]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12446450#post12446450 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Bluemorningwind
Captive systems have "more pristine water conditions" than what?

I think Goniopora probably die in captive systems because they lack a food source that they rely on in nature.

I had no trouble keeping them when I used to use unfiltered NSW, now that I use synthetic SW only, I can't keep them successfully.

Goniopora are often lagoonal and associated with turbid waters full of sediment and discolved nutrients. In comparison to that type of environment I would say our closed systems are pristine. Yes, nutrition is probably a big factor in Goniopora death, but it's not that simple. For every Goniopora that make it several months and slowly starve to death there are probably dozens that die far more quickly from a plethora of other reasons.

He's had the coral for a few weeks. No coral is going to starve to death in about a months time, especially not one with zooxanthellae. Even non-photosynthetic corals that aren't fed properly usually take months to finally whither away into nothing.

 

[calkulon]

In my diving trips where i have seen gonipora, the majority of them have been in shallow,backwater lagoons or close to streams or rivers.. Lots of particulates in the water to the point of making it dim. The bottom was very silty, many goniporas were located around mangroves. From my observations i would say they like ''dirty'' water and lower light levels. I would also conclude that most of these corals simply starve to death in aquariums as we cannot give them a non-stop supply of food. Just my own opinion.

 

[silvers]

IMO its the size of the food. I had a gonipora for over two years it budded twice and was in 4 diffrent systems. it is now in a buddys tank still in good health.I think I owe the health of this coral to direct feeding of oyster eggs and cyclopeze twice a week. There is some great info at Gonipora.org

 

[Bluemorningwind]

There is no way that a captive system is more pristine than a thriving natural system. Please refer to this link: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pristine. Just silly to suggest. For a start, it is either pristine or it isn't.

This coral requires a food source that is missing in captive systems. Use NSW and you'll be better able to keep Goniopora for extended periods. It's that simple.

More likely that some of the food types, or sizes as mentioned are key to success with Goniopora, but the "more pristine" line is erroneous.

 

[chvynva916]

It's also worth noting that the suddenness of the death is typical. In fact, years ago this story was somewhat common: "I bought a gonipora, it did great for [x period of time], but then it died suddenly." As far as I know, it's not clear on how/why this happens. Similarly, some people keep them successfully, but don't seem to have a handle on what they're doing differently. I think until we know the coral better, it's just luck.

 

[Peter Eichler]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12446931#post12446931 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Bluemorningwind
There is no way that a captive system is more pristine than a thriving natural system. Please refer to this link: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pristine. Just silly to suggest. For a start, it is either pristine or it isn't.

This coral requires a food source that is missing in captive systems. Use NSW and you'll be better able to keep Goniopora for extended periods. It's that simple.

More likely that some of the food types, or sizes as mentioned are key to success with Goniopora, but the "more pristine" line is erroneous.

Forgive me for not using a word to your liking and showing me the definition for pristine :rolleye1:

I'll remember that next time I see Goniopora thriving a short ways away from sewage runoff and water so cloudy you can barely even tell there's Goniopora there.

P.S. Thanks for solving the Goniopora mystery for all of us...

 

[Bluemorningwind]

Peter Eichler,

Seems to me that Goniopora may be very hardy if it can exist in the conditions you suggest. However, I doubt sewage is the key to keeping Goniopora successfully.

I still believe that there is a food source that we don't understand well enough.

 

[Peter Eichler]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12447625#post12447625 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Bluemorningwind
Peter Eichler,

Seems to me that Goniopora may be very hardy if it can exist in the conditions you suggest. However, I doubt sewage is the key to keeping Goniopora successfully.

I still believe that there is a food source that we don't understand well enough.

I've never anything to deny that starvation is certainly a factor in the demise of many Goniopora. However, a Goniopora is not going to starve in a matter of a few weeks which is how long he has had the coral. I have seen hundreds of Goniopora arrive at various wholesalers and retailers looking healthy as can be only to be dead within a couple weeks. That is NOT starvation.

Then there are the Goniopora that that make it past those early stages. I have never doubted for one second that those Goniopora are probably slowly dying due to dietary needs. Which is why I brought up the more efficient protein skimmers of today. I was simply implying that there's a good chance that they're removing things that could act as a food source for the Goniopora. I made the statements I did somewhat in relation to this statement by the OP. I was thinkg to myself that his Goniopora that made it 15 months in his old tank probably wouldn't have made it half that long if it were placed in a typical low nutrient SPS geared system of today.

"I ran a 29gal mixed reef for 2 years with nothing but a power head and an HOB with Purigen, changed water every 6 to 8 weeks and was scraping polyps off the sides. Goniopora lived 15 months."

 

[Bluemorningwind]

I'm sure all corals can survive in modern aquaria provided they get the nutrition they need to regenerate healthy tissue. Goniopora just doesn't get that nutrition and the result is inevitable. Its tissue breaks down.

Same thing goes for Dendronephthya and others that we can't readily keep. These corals require NSW on a regular basis to feed and regenerate tissue. Dendronepthya doesn't have a symbiotic relationship with zooxanthellae at all. It requires a food source found exclusively in the water column. What is it?

Currently, we simply can not provide some food sources without using NSW.

 

[Peter Eichler]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12448247#post12448247 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Bluemorningwind
I'm sure all corals can survive in modern aquaria provided they get the nutrition they need to regenerate healthy tissue. Goniopora just doesn't get that nutrition and the result is inevitable. Its tissue breaks down.

Same thing goes for Dendronephthya and others that we can't readily keep. These corals require NSW on a regular basis to feed and regenerate tissue. Dendronepthya doesn't have a symbiotic relationship with zooxanthellae at all. It requires a food source found exclusively in the water column. What is it?

Currently, we simply can not provide some food sources without using NSW.

You seem to be ignoring or not comprehending much of what I'm saying. So, how about we just agree to disagree.

 

[Gdevine]

Let's see; all I've ever used is NSW and I do 12g WC's per week on a 65g DT including a 35g Ecosystem fuge and mine didn't last 3 months. I fed, and dosed and all my other corals just thrive...but not this one...

I call them "rent a corals".

 

[jpeconsult]

One of four things:

Water Quality
Water Flow/Current
Lighting
Location within light spectrum (hig/low in the tank)

Make sure its location is optimal. --jpe

 

[mikesommers]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12446330#post12446330 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by demonsp
Flow sounds high.High flow just as bad.A good medium for your tank around 30 times meaning around 2500 gph.If it is to high this could mean coral cant grab enough food fast enough. Just a suggestion.

P.S. when I feed all pumps are shut down for 30 to 45 min. Everybody gets plenty of time to feed. I think the coral died from the tank being to clean. That makes sense to me IMO.

 

[mikesommers]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12447778#post12447778 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Peter Eichler
I've never anything to deny that starvation is certainly a factor in the demise of many Goniopora. However, a Goniopora is not going to starve in a matter of a few weeks which is how long he has had the coral. I have seen hundreds of Goniopora arrive at various wholesalers and retailers looking healthy as can be only to be dead within a couple weeks. That is NOT starvation.

Then there are the Goniopora that that make it past those early stages. I have never doubted for one second that those Goniopora are probably slowly dying due to dietary needs. Which is why I brought up the more efficient protein skimmers of today. I was simply implying that there's a good chance that they're removing things that could act as a food source for the Goniopora. I made the statements I did somewhat in relation to this statement by the OP. I was thinkg to myself that his Goniopora that made it 15 months in his old tank probably wouldn't have made it half that long if it were placed in a typical low nutrient SPS geared system of today.

"I ran a 29gal mixed reef for 2 years with nothing but a power head and an HOB with Purigen, changed water every 6 to 8 weeks and was scraping polyps off the sides. Goniopora lived 15 months."

Great Info man!!! By the way dropped SG to 1.024 so that I average 1.025 to 1.026 with evap. Zoas are starting to live again. Color coming back and tonight they were even starting to poop again ! Thanks for all the great info!!! I am also going to ezz up on all this testing and trying to fix things. My old method worked much better. Let the tank be a tank. Things will take care of them selves that way. A 75 should be way easier than a 29 and I think I am over analyzing and making it harder than what it should be......

Thanks again!!!!

 

[Bluemorningwind]

Gdevine, What brand of NSW do you use?