Greed in the hobby... heartbreaking

I am very glad to see that the reefers in michigan are not the only ones who feel this way. The inner reefer in me was almost dead, I have decided to stand up for what i believe. I would like to share a post i wrote for the other site mucho was speaking of (the thread was on coral lineage and is it right to sell a coral as a named speciemen when you cant prove it really is?), hopefully it will help start a fire under people here on RC to begin the revolution. Things have gotten way too far out of control. We need to take our hobby back!

*Disclaimer* The views expressed by the author are simply that. His opinion, nothing more. Do not shoot the messanger... He has mearly seen the light.*

First off, let the record show that i created this account mearly at a friends request to view this thread and ponder. I do not post on reefing forums any longer due to lack of intelligent discussion. After spending 2 hours reading this thread i decided to pontificate on the subject.

I shall begin by saying Mucho, I completely agree with you 100%. I agree with others in this thread on some ideas, but not entirely. Now a little bit on me, since I am a "newbie" to this site.

I have been reefing since i was 13 years old. Working in fish stores, taking marine biology courses in high school and college alike. A grand total of nearly 11 years of knowlegde and experience under my belt. I have bought and read more zoology/coral/invert/biology/fish/reefing/plant/amphibian/reptile books than you can shake a stick at. I have probably spent just as much money on reading material as actual live stock. I should just put a sign on my front door that says "Animal Geek Library, Come On In..."

I remember the "good ole days" mucho and some others refer to. The days before clever marketing tainted the beautiful hobby known as reefing. However, reefing was more than a hobby to me. It was part of my life. I am sure others on this forum can attest to that feeling.

From the moment I brought home my very first photosythetic animal (a coral) it spread like wildfire. It was an octocoral... A Pachyclavularia violaceato be more exact. (Look it up) As most soft corals are under current re-classification and taxonomic construction, thats be best description i can give. After a carefull aclimation procedure i gently placed my new specimen on the sandfloor. As I sat there and watched those beautiful bright green polyps open up I was in wonder in awe. I thought of it as more than just a pet, or something pretty to look at. It wasn't an honor for the coral to be picked by me, the honor was mine to have it living in my aquarium.

Just because you own an amimal, doesnt give you the right to abuse or mistreat it. I think thats were alot of hobbiest fail to come up to par. Butchering up tiny fragments of corals is just wrong. Oh joy my Acropora frag is 1 in long now. I'm starting to see polyps, i can cut it in half and sell it...... Or, oh yay my Zoanthid/Palythoa frag has two polyps, I can sell one finally.......

The hard truth is, the name game/coral lineage/dynamic ecomorphology or whatever the hell you wanna call it, is nothing more than clever marketing thought up by people who claim they are helping the hobby by aquaculturing. From what i have read on some of these people (I wil not mention any names), they know how to take photographs, and grow Acropora..... Wow thats no small feat...... Before you go accusing me of preaching that aquaculturing is wrong, let me clarrify. I think aquarculturing is great. An amazing advancement in the hobby! It takes less stress off the natural reefs in our oceans when newbs kill corals that they know absolutely nothing about.

Clever marketing is exactly like the Mcdonalds Happy Meal my friends. "If I buy that meal thats terrible for my childs health, they get a toy. HOOORAY!"

Just because someone puts a brand on a coral absolutely does not mean the coral is worth more money. Period. The people out there who think otherwise are in on it for THE MONEY...... I have been given, traded, and given away more colorful pieces than any marketed coral or invert. (I am not at all trying to brag.) If I offend anyone by saying that, well i think you need to take a look into your soul and decide if what your doing is humaine. I'll give you a hint... It's not... Your raping inocent people new in the hobby. You are missing the point of reefing as a whole. Its not about making money amd having pretty little named frags, its about growing a beautiful peice of nature in your home! Over 1000 people have viewed this post, only a fraction of the site society has spoken out. Stop being affraid of stepping on toes, and voice your opinion!

Just a quick look around this site pointed me in the direction of tiny frag packs of named polyps for an insaine amount of money. Thats absolutely ludicrous. People like this have ruined the hobby. Its flat out disgusting and makes me want to vomit. Monkey see, Monkey do... Thats what got us into this mess in the begining! You have flat out ruined the hobby, and taken away a part of me i can never get back. I cant even strole into a random fish store anymore without seeing a tiny frag plug with a named coral on it... Quite frankly it has pi$$ed me off.

To all the new hobbiest out there, dont buy into the hype. Instead, try picking up a book or starting an intelligent discussion with a real hobbiest who has experience growing a reef, not fragging corals and inverts.

My name is Sharkboy87 because I have a large interest in breeding elasmobranchs.... Not because of Sharkboy and Lava Girl....

*Disclaimer* The views expressed by the author are simply that. His opinion, nothing more. Do not shoot the messanger... He has mearly seen the light.*
 
I read the whole thread ! I'm totally new at salted water i've been in fresh water for 20 years. I've been helping 2 friends this week with their tanks filters decors etc. I supply them with plants " no charge " cause they grow like crazy in my tanks because of my experience. no charge is fault...it's costing them pizza and beers , great time to spend with friends. I DO make my fees by selling them to local store. But if someone ask for some Of my plant i will supply for FREE and tell them next time oyu buyu something new just share a piece. Then it gonne be pizza and beer again !

I guees It my way !
 
johnny i totally agree with you.as i said peviously i own a lfs and i know everything that goes into one and i understand that nobody is in buisness to break even.that being said i apoligize again for ranting but since going from a hobbyist to lfs employee to owner i just keep getting baffled more and more.

seaweed89 i sent you a pm.im not going to post the name or location of by shop here because "dc" will just delete it anyway.Any who would like to know is more than welcome to pm me.

scopus tang i agree with you about greed.eveyone has to make a living and provide for their family.When a lfs is buying a box of large acropora colonys for a couple hundred bucks and chopping that box into a couple hundred frags and putting them under 400w 20k's and put $20-$40 price tags on frags they mostly likely only paid a dollar or two that is also greed but stores like that have exploded lately.

sharkboy i agree with you on yout post but defiantly on you saying just because you own it doesnt give you the right to abuse it.Like what i said yo scopus tang,just becuase a lfs can buy a box of corals doesnt give them the right in my mind to chop colonys down to nothing to just make a larger profit.i also understand that people like to buy frags and grow them out and that they are cheaper then if you were buying the whole colony.I wont buy a frag that didnt come from a aquaculture facility or a hobbyists tank.

Again everyone its just my .02
 
If people would have put in half of the effort they put in this thread we would have a decent coral sharing program. The goal of DBTC program is to promote exactly what everyone here is trying to achieve and that is to bring back the coral swapping attitude and share the expense of coral propagation. I can try to sell someone a brown crappy zoa for a 100 bucks a polyp and as long as there are dummies that buy them I will continue to sell them. Chances are that no one is going to fall for such a gimmick but the point I am trying to make is that it is partly the consumers fault for purchasing outrageously priced corals just because its fragged by some big shot in the industry. As long as there is a demand for it, someone will be willing to supply it and make a ton of money. Back to the DBTC program, I created a spreadsheet and shared it with the club members and got very little response. Only about 5 of us donated a coral that we are still willing to give to a member of NCPARS for FREE but no one seems to be interested and I dont understand why. It may be that people arent interested in sharing and thats fine because its not mandatory but for those who do want to share, there is a lot of potential here and I dont mind doing the extra work to keep this program going. All I am trying to do is manage a list of corals that people are willing to trade so its easier for you to find a specific coral you may be interested in. The only condition is that if you accept a coral, you must grow it out and give away three frags of it to someone else before selling it. Its very simple and its the only way to bring back the coral swapping attitude because there is no money involved until you fulfill your commitment and then you can do whatever you want with your coral.

Does this make any sense to anyone? Or am I just wasting my time?

Al
 
Gotten out of control is an understatment!!!!

It is very disheartening....and unfortunate, that the hobby has gone so commercial, for lack of a better word.
 
Johnny-

At $1/ frag, I am surprised you sold any!!!!! If its not top dollar, and doesnt carry a crazy name, it usually doesnt sell- unless a real reefer happens along to find it.

Ive posted many zoas for sale, cheap! They dont move....

I repost them, with their labled names, and at an inflatted cost- and they are swooped up like hotcakes!!! Same frags, same pics- just a little added to them- names and price!

Those people that baught them, didnt pay the listed price.....and they got some good conversation on the state of the hobby, and a bit of my oppinions on things while they were at my home. Trust me- the word spreads.

Best bet- pass your goods into like minded folk, and to new reefers, and educate when ya can.

Its a shame......
 
PerezAF01 said:
Wouldn't it be nice to have some kind of program where people can grow and share corals by passing them on to other reefers. With the condition that the person receiving the corals promises to share that same coral with three other people when it grows out.
Gee I wish something like that was in place. People could then share the expense of all these expensive corals. LOL
Click to expand...

There are a few local clubs that do run programs like this. They seem to run slowly though since each person is growing the stuff out.



I applaud this thread as well, great points and discussion. And if anyone in the Reading area wants frags or trades let me know. :)
 
I too was very upset & got discusted with the prices people were asking.They were definetly into it for profit.I devoted a whole day drove 4 hours & left with almost nothing.Discusted yes.I was looking forward to this swap for months.If this continues I won't be attending any more,as many others I'm sure.FYI.Just my 2 cents.
 
I'm going to get my dues paid and join the coral sharing program. Back in the day with the frag swaps it felt more like a large group of friends getting together and sharing stories, knowledge and frags. I sold a lot of frags at swaps but at what I felt was a very fair price. I haven't been to a swap in a long time, hopefully that friendly atmosphere still exists. But it seems a lot more commercial to me.

If anyone would like any pom pom xenia or red or green striped mushrooms, I have some available. They are free.

Jon
 
I was all over the room all day. I did have a chance to stop and talk to people who were selling corals. Alot of them were fairly priced and you could find bargains if you had the time to browse and NOT COMPLAIN about the prices of the TOP OF THE LINE corals you want for next to nothing.

There were people there selling $25 zoo frags for $10 and $15. There were people also selling acan frags for $25 that were much bigger than the ones you see online for $60-$80. Some of the LE or rare acros were going for $25 and under. YES, there were some high end corals there that people wanted more money for, but also their asking prices were less than retail or were that of retail but the frag was much bigger than those seen online.

If you don't like the prices... THEN DON'T BUY THEM. No one is twisting your arm.

I didn't see too many things that was OVER priced yesterday... The things most would consider overpriced were high end Aussie or LE stuff that are high everywhere.

I am not saying there is or isn't a problem with coral frag prices.

Overall... The idea behind swaps is not cheap frags... Or Limited Edition finds... The idea of the frag swap is that we all get together to converse, share information, and in addition to learning we save our worlds resourses from further destruction, harvesting, and extinction. If you account for all the frags that were traded, sold, or given away yesterday... Most will feel good that they took part in an effort to save the world reefs because for every frag that was exchanged yesterday; one less had to come from the wild. One less plane took flight and used fossil fuels to deliver those corals to wholesalers and one less plane delivered those corals to a LFS from the wholesaler.

There is a bigger picture here. More than that of pricing of frags. More than most peoples mission of keeping a reef in their home. Some of which do this very cheaply and only with frags and even some high priced ones.

BTW.. Price and fairness is an opinion. What is fair to someone, is unfair to another.

This is not the forum to complain about an event we held.

IF YOU SEE AN ISSUE and ARE a member of NCPARS; then this is what you do....

Come to our membership meetings. Yesterday we held a membership meeting. Only a handful atttended(over 100 members currently) and we asked if anyone had and concerns or anything they would like to bring up for discussion. There wasn't anyone there who would like to discuss anything in particular. The only way our society can resolve any concerns or issues is if the membership brings it up at our membership meetings or via email to a board member. If you are not a member of the society, then your opinion isn't going to be taken seriously or be valid to the society. That is the way it works. This is the way it has always worked.

We did cover a few items at the membership meeting yesterday. All of which were of importance to the societies course and business it conducts with frag swaps, school program, and our agenda. We also will be starting nominations for the board of directors election that is going to be held in April. This is another way for people to become more involved and help the cause!
 
ranger07 said:
I too was very upset & got discusted with the prices people were asking.They were definetly into it for profit.I devoted a whole day drove 4 hours & left with almost nothing.Discusted yes.I was looking forward to this swap for months.If this continues I won't be attending any more,as many others I'm sure.FYI.Just my 2 cents.
Click to expand...

Sorry to hear that but you are in the minority of people attending.500 plus people came and stayed,ate,bonded and if they left with nothing,they have the decency to say they enjoyed the countless other activies,free food,seminars,store specials,free grab bags,raffles etc.. for and most of all bonding with friends.This society has been around for a good while now and actively growing for the past 3 years from the hard work and 100'S of man ours volunteered by our BOD.I take offense to anyone that does not participate in any of the clubs functions but describes the event as a bust because they could not find a $1 frag to buy.Sponsors donate corals,dry goods etc so these events can take place so if they are there trying to sell a coral and you think its too expensive,try enjoying the other activities instead of spreading the doom and negative comments.If you feel you can do a better job at running the club,please feel free to run for office in april,i will not run against you,otherwise you should be a bit more considerate of others involved.

Again this has been said before but for some reason it is having a hard time penetrating the hard line people have on getting a Tyree or ORA coral for a $1.Its not going to happen unless 'you' buy a LE coral and spend a year growing it and then YOU sell it for a dollar or give it away.There is a thread in this forum,and i will make sure it is a sticky for you guys,and it is the very thing you are looking for.Free trading of frags,only difference is you have to put the 1 to 2 years of grow time in to be the giver.Now for the takers in the group,this has been ignored .

I am puzzled at the thought that some feel they can be the judge of whom gets the charity offered up by another.

This is the thread for sharing corals.
Please enjoy the benefit of free corals here


http://http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1922842
 
rickyfins said:
LE or rare acros were going for $25 and under. YES, there were some high end corals there that people wanted more money for,
The things most would consider overpriced were high end Aussie or LE stuff that are high everywhere.
Click to expand...

The catagories you classified corals in (highlighed in red) are simply a myth. There is no such thing as high end, LE, or often times rare... Corals that people are calling deep water, or aussie corals are actually from the same places in the phillipines that they were always comming from... just with a larger price tag.
It is all just clever marketing, a way for someone to lie to someone else to make more $$$$. There are rare corals, but they arent named "one of a kind", or "the last known species in existance". If they were truly rare, EVERYONE would not have them, and you would have probably never seen them.
 
The swap yesterday was great. I disagree with Ricky in that there were quite a few overpriced things, but there were also a lot of things at great prices. The swap was very well run and I really liked the new flow they had. The bags were great! My wife was upset she didn't get a golden ticket... although she had no idea what it meant... I told her the person with the golden ticket got to see the coral factory ... she didn't get the joke :love2: The auctions were great as always. Sir_Pat, my frags went very fast and I tried to make more to cover as many of the requests that I could, most of the people were very nice and a pleasure to meet.

For those intersted in reading the NCPARS coral sharing program, the thread is here:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1922842
You can't read the formal rules though, unless you're an NCPARS member... or maybe they're listed somewhere else?

There are a few problems with the program that I think may be part of why it isn't taking off...
First off you have to be a member of NCPARS. If I read the paper correctly at the swap yesterday, for my wife and I that would be $65? I'm sure it's a great club and all, but most of you guys are more than 2hrs away from me and I probably wouldn't be able to make it to the swaps.. so $65 is a lot for me to get started in this coral sharing program.
Lastly, I think the larger part of it not taking off is that people are afraid to fail. What if Dan or Sanjay give me a beautiful frag of "insert coral name" and it dies? I'd feel like I just let a lot of people down.

So a few things that I think could make the program take off:
Get a site that is open to everyone... maybe Fizz could make us our own section of fragswapper? Then everyone would need to read the "rules" and click an "agree" box before registering in the free corals sections. Maybe we could set something up where you can't request more than one item, until you have also listed an item? Don't know if that's too complicated for the site though.
I'd rather see the free frag, always be a free coral... but I could live with the 3 free then sell deal.

TNYR, if you're interested in doing a free forever swap with me let me know, I have a few zoos I could offer up... I could probably do 2 for 1 so that you could put one of the frags I give you into the NCPARS coral sharing program.

One last thought... I've always liked Candy Apple Red zoas. They are a very good example of an expensive coral though. People in this thread have said consumers drive up the prices, don't pay it if you think it's too pricey, etc etc... I've been looking for CARs for probably 2 years now. If I don't pay the $20 per polyp price... well there's nowhere else to get it. I bought some yesterday in the hopes that they grow as well as my other zoas and maybe by me offering them for a much much lower price in the future, it will drive the market down enough to where more people can enjoy what I believe is one of the nicest zoas there are.

Nick
 
Last edited:
Sorry Dan must have been posting at the same time as you. Your link isn't working, but I'm guessing it was to the same thread that I posted? Any chance you could post the rules to the same thread for everyone?

And I agree with Dan, whether you found corals or not, yesterday's frag swap was a lot of fun and something I look forward to every year. Ranger, next year make sure to check fragswapper.com the month before the event as a lot of people put pre-orders for their corals up there at very good prices. A lot of the good stuff at the swaps goes fast.

Nick
 
PerezAF01 said:
If people would have put in half of the effort they put in this thread we would have a decent coral sharing program. The goal of DBTC program is to promote exactly what everyone here is trying to achieve and that is to bring back the coral swapping attitude and share the expense of coral propagation. I can try to sell someone a brown crappy zoa for a 100 bucks a polyp and as long as there are dummies that buy them I will continue to sell them. Chances are that no one is going to fall for such a gimmick but the point I am trying to make is that it is partly the consumers fault for purchasing outrageously priced corals just because its fragged by some big shot in the industry. As long as there is a demand for it, someone will be willing to supply it and make a ton of money. Back to the DBTC program, I created a spreadsheet and shared it with the club members and got very little response. Only about 5 of us donated a coral that we are still willing to give to a member of NCPARS for FREE but no one seems to be interested and I dont understand why. It may be that people arent interested in sharing and thats fine because its not mandatory but for those who do want to share, there is a lot of potential here and I dont mind doing the extra work to keep this program going. All I am trying to do is manage a list of corals that people are willing to trade so its easier for you to find a specific coral you may be interested in. The only condition is that if you accept a coral, you must grow it out and give away three frags of it to someone else before selling it. Its very simple and its the only way to bring back the coral swapping attitude because there is no money involved until you fulfill your commitment and then you can do whatever you want with your coral.

Does this make any sense to anyone? Or am I just wasting my time?

Al
Click to expand...


Just want to clear things up before I get anymore messages about my comments.

NO. I dont sell brown polyps for $100 dollars and I am not saying anyone in our club does that either. There may be some places out there that do that but I dont know that for sure. That statement was said simply to get a point across.
 
johnny said:
The swap yesterday was great. I disagree with Ricky in that there were quite a few overpriced things, but there were also a lot of things at great prices. The swap was very well run and I really liked the new flow they had. The bags were great! My wife was upset she didn't get a golden ticket... although she had no idea what it meant... I told her the person with the golden ticket got to see the coral factory ... she didn't get the joke :love2: The auctions were great as always. Sir_Pat, my frags went very fast and I tried to make more to cover as many of the requests that I could, most of the people were very nice and a pleasure to meet.

For those intersted in reading the NCPARS coral sharing program, the thread is here:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1922842
You can't read the formal rules though, unless you're an NCPARS member... or maybe they're listed somewhere else?

There are a few problems with the program that I think may be part of why it isn't taking off...
First off you have to be a member of NCPARS. If I read the paper correctly at the swap yesterday, for my wife and I that would be $65? I'm sure it's a great club and all, but most of you guys are more than 2hrs away from me and I probably wouldn't be able to make it to the swaps.. so $65 is a lot for me to get started in this coral sharing program.
Lastly, I think the larger part of it not taking off is that people are afraid to fail. What if Dan or Sanjay give me a beautiful frag of "insert coral name" and it dies? I'd feel like I just let a lot of people down.

So a few things that I think could make the program take off:
Get a site that is open to everyone... maybe Fizz could make us our own section of fragswapper? Then everyone would need to read the "rules" and click an "agree" box before registering in the free corals sections. Maybe we could set something up where you can't request more than one item, until you have also listed an item? Don't know if that's too complicated for the site though.
I'd rather see the free frag, always be a free coral... but I could live with the 3 free then sell deal.

TNYR, if you're interested in doing a free forever swap with me let me know, I have a few zoos I could offer up... I could probably do 2 for 1 so that you could put one of the frags I give you into the NCPARS coral sharing program.

One last thought... I've always liked Candy Apple Red zoas. They are a very good example of an expensive coral though. People in this thread have said consumers drive up the prices, don't pay it if you think it's too pricey, etc etc... I've been looking for CARs for probably 2 years now. If I don't pay the $20 per polyp price... well there's nowhere else to get it. I bought some yesterday in the hopes that they grow as well as my other zoas and maybe by me offering them for a much much lower price in the future, it will drive the market down enough to where more people can enjoy what I believe is one of the nicest zoas there are.

Nick
Click to expand...


Nick you beat me to it. I was planning on shooting Fizz an email about the possibility of helping me add a site dedicated to the DBTC program. I just think it would be a little unfair to have a page only for NCPARS members on Fragswapper and I am not willing to manage a program in which non members can participate because the work behind it would be more than I can handle.

As far as membership is concerned, I do think you misinterpreted the sign yesterday. Membership is $36 dollars a year for the family or $24 for a single membership and a $5 dollar entry fee for the winter swap. You could have asked anyone on the desk or myself (I was selling raffle tickets most of the day) and we would have been happy to help.

Al
 
PerezAF01 said:
Nick you beat me to it. I was planning on shooting Fizz an email about the possibility of helping me add a site dedicated to the DBTC program. I just think it would be a little unfair to have a page only for NCPARS members on Fragswapper and I am not willing to manage a program in which non members can participate because the work behind it would be more than I can handle.

As far as membership is concerned, I do think you misinterpreted the sign yesterday. Membership is $36 dollars a year for the family or $24 for a single membership and a $5 dollar entry fee for the winter swap. You could have asked anyone on the desk or myself (I was selling raffle tickets most of the day) and we would have been happy to help.

Al
Click to expand...

Haha,Al you could fill a bucket with some of the mis information in this thread,lol
It is starting to feel like a recruitment for another society or a rouge club which i cannot allow in NCPARS club forum.I am all for discussion and I for one would love to see this in our forum instead of the countless for sale adds that pop up here with used equipment by non society members, however if i feel comments are steered against NCPARS by non members that are looking to share the benefits of the loyal NCPARS members I need to look at this a bit harder.
If you want to be a part of our programs you need to be a member in good standing and accepted by the group.This is one of the criteria.If that does not match your desire then you can either run for office,get elected,volunteer your time and effort and make a change that is approved by the BOD and society.or.move on.Maybe your local club can run a open ended DBTC program and let all whom are looking for free or inexpensive frag be included.

Again this is just friendly discussion and not meant to offend anyone but a bit of common sense and research before you flame someone or something will put much more credibility in ones statements
 
Oh ok, sorry I'm not sure where I got the $65 from.

Hopefully Fizz will chime in, not sure there'd be anything to manage if we were able to use part of fragswapper. It would be like hosting another event, except this event would go on for a long time hopefully. I'd like to leave it open to those of us that aren't part of NCPARS, I'm sure reefers like MUCHO and other that live in other states may be interested as well.

Nick
 
Let me say,I never expected free frags or even $1 frags at this swap or any other.The swap in general was a fun event.I was just shocked to the high prices some of the people were asking.This was just my opinion.The atmosphere among p[eople was very positive & I enjoyed chatting with hobbiest.
 
My $0.02...I had a great time at the swap. It was nice seeing old friends, and making new ones. I thoroughly appreciate the efforts of everyone involved in making the swap such a success...from those who contact sponsors, organize raffles, sell tickets, run the door, contact speakers, set up chairs and tables, clean up trash, order lunch, etc., etc. The list goes on. I know it took a lot of people a lot of time to make the swap what it was, and I for one, am greatly appreciative of their efforts.

On to the over-priced corals topic...I've been in the hobby for years, as many of you have, and just like many of you, I have seen the price of livestock skyrocket over the years. But I've also seen the quality of the livestock skyrocket, as well. Ten years ago, you would have been hard-pressed to find the variety and vivid color selection we are privy to in the market these days. I fully respect those that are able to keep and propagate such corals. I understand the high cost of electricity, hardware, time, maintenance, etc. involved in keeping a nice system, and I have no issues with someone charging whatever they'd like to charge for their frags. They've made the investment to grow such beautiful corals, they have every right to charge what they feel necessary to pass along quality livestock, while earning money in the process. To those who criticize what they deem over-priced corals, please think about the investment these folks make in growing and caring for their systems that produce such beautiful specimens. In my opinion, if you don't like the price of a coral, don't buy it. There were many, many corals to purchase at the swap, and the majority of them that I saw were under $20. That being said, it's a swap...ask the seller if they'd like to swap for something nice that you have available. It's a win, win for everyone when that happens.

Thanks again for the great swap, folks!

PS: Dan...I rescued your frag from the bag in my sump, it's nestled safely on the frag rack and will be waiting for you in the Spring. Sorry, again.
 
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