Green Mandarin Dragonet

[cornerjag]

OK so, I am wanting to buy this male/female pair of Green Mandarins at the LFS and wanted some help from those with experience keeping Mandarins. I have a 90G display with about 80-90 lbs of live rock and a 30 G Refugium with about 20 or so lbs of live rock. No Chaeto in the Refugium. The tank has been running over a year and I know I have a solid copepod population.

My biggest concern is making sure I have enough copepods to keep these little guys alive and happy. If not, perhaps what are my best options for supplementing the lack of a copepod population once I put these guys in the tank. I know the LFS has live bottles of copepods that I will be able to purchase. I hope to be able to get the Mandarins to accept other foods in the future and I would like to know what other foods anyone has had success with?

:reading::reading::reading::reading:

 

[TankStudy]

They will accept frozen but must be taught how to eat frozen. Some do it in small confinement areas first then release the dragonet or some target feed zones where the dragonet heavily hunts. Once they get a small taste of the frozen, they usually accept it fairly quickly. The trick is enticing them to take the very first bite. However, I would recommend slow water movement areas in the tank so that food may drift and settle there or you may have to turn off your pumps and then feed. They have poor coordination on moving food and are slow of course. Its neat to watch them try to catch flying mysis in the water column but I prefer they not have to go thru such a hassle.

I use to train mandarins and sell them off for money. You can buy them at around 15.00 and turn them around for 50-60 when trained to eat frozen.

 

[cornerjag]

Thanks, I will have to pick up some more Mysis at the store. I have also been contemplating on trying to culture some copepods. Since it will be my first try at to start up a little pod tank are there any helpful tips I should be aware of going into it?

 

[cornerjag]

Also to be sure, the males have the more pointed dorsal fin and the females are more rounded?

 

[ilikefish34]

Hello Cornerjag, glad to see that you're doing your homework on this specialized fish. Yes the male has a much longer dorsal fin than the female and should be the only field mark you need for sexing them. The Tankstudy was spot on for the feeding... a friend of mine used to feed his by leaving a clear tube (uplift tube for a freshwater under-gravel filter) in the rear corner of his aquarium with an elbow at the bottom that was customized for the size of his mandarin. This would allow for the fish to be target fed without the competition of its tank-mates. And that leads to this, what other fish are you planning?

 

[cornerjag]

I am thinking about starting up a Copepod culture and need to do some more research on that as well. I'm sure it will be cheaper than having to purchase Copepods from the LFS.

 

[cornerjag]

Hello Cornerjag, glad to see that you're doing your homework on this specialized fish. Yes the male has a much longer dorsal fin than the female and should be the only field mark you need for sexing them. The Tankstudy was spot on for the feeding... a friend of mine used to feed his by leaving a clear tube (uplift tube for a freshwater under-gravel filter) in the rear corner of his aquarium with an elbow at the bottom that was customized for the size of his mandarin. This would allow for the fish to be target fed without the competition of its tank-mates. And that leads to this, what other fish are you planning?

Currently I have a Powder Brown Tang and a Sixline Wrasse that both eat flake and Brine Shrimp. I was a little nervous putting the Powder Brown Tang in because I heard they can be a little tricky and wanted to be sure my tank was big enough. I have been contemplating about putting in a pair of Flasher Wrasses, pair of Tomato Clowns, a Naso or Blue Tang in that hopefully wont fight much with the Powder Brown in the future.

 

[ilikefish34]

Be wary of the Six-line and Tomato Clowns aggression, especially towards the future Flashers. But mostly, I would be concerned about how voracious of feeders they are and I would highly doubt that frozen foods would be an option for the Mandarin with that mix. Also, the Six-line will be the top copepod predator in that tank and will be the first at the target feeding station. The Naso would be fine for a while but will certainly outgrow a 90 gallon. Which Blue Tang were you considering? The Atlantic and Powder are both in the genus Acanthurus, along with the Powder Brown and would most likely need a 180 or larger to coexist. The Blue Hippo, aka Regal, could work but does get large.

IMO I would forgo the Tomatoes in favor of some Perculas (any variation) and remove the Six-line and replace with the Flashers of your choice. A Flame Angel could go nicely with this group and about the only other tang I would try is a small Yellow.

Regardless of what you decide, I would recommend away from the brine and switch to mysis and bloodworms and some quality pellet foods. They can be thawed and soaked in Vitamins which are great for long term health and color for the fish.

Good Luck!
Mike

p.s. I absolutely love the Six-lines, but as much as I do, they end up being trouble with other small and medium size fishes.

 

[cornerjag]

Be wary of the Six-line and Tomato Clowns aggression, especially towards the future Flashers. But mostly, I would be concerned about how voracious of feeders they are and I would highly doubt that frozen foods would be an option for the Mandarin with that mix. Also, the Six-line will be the top copepod predator in that tank and will be the first at the target feeding station. The Naso would be fine for a while but will certainly outgrow a 90 gallon. Which Blue Tang were you considering? The Atlantic and Powder are both in the genus Acanthurus, along with the Powder Brown and would most likely need a 180 or larger to coexist. The Blue Hippo, aka Regal, could work but does get large.

IMO I would forgo the Tomatoes in favor of some Perculas (any variation) and remove the Six-line and replace with the Flashers of your choice. A Flame Angel could go nicely with this group and about the only other tang I would try is a small Yellow.

Regardless of what you decide, I would recommend away from the brine and switch to mysis and bloodworms and some quality pellet foods. They can be thawed and soaked in Vitamins which are great for long term health and color for the fish.

Good Luck!
Mike

p.s. I absolutely love the Six-lines, but as much as I do, they end up being trouble with other small and medium size fishes.

I didn't realize that the Six Lines Wrasses could be that aggressive to other small to medium size fish. I have had a Six Line in the past that hung out with a Purple Tang and getting a pair of Flasher Wrasses would be a cool addition to my tank. Are the Flasher Wrasses as big a consumer of Copepods? I may have to remove the Six Line if it is likely to not get along with the Flasher Wrasses.

As of right not I'm hit or miss on the clown idea. I will probably keep my eye out for an anemone and if I find one that works I will try adding a pair of some lesser aggressive clownfish.

My biggest worry is that I would really love to get these Mandarins but want to be sure I can be successful. With the Six Line be a major consumer of pods I am seriously thinking about culturing my own. From what I've read it doesn't seem terrible difficult. I just need to get an aerator and some tubing.

Have you ever tried culturing Copepods? and thanks for the help as well.

 

[TankStudy]

I have kept wrasses and mandarins together assuming you can get your mandarin to eat frozen and provide areas in which it can hunt during the feeding frenzy.

Wrasses in general will destroy pod populations.

Depending on what pods you get, you will need to feed them accordingly. They are not just simply all algae eaters.

 

[reeferstace]

I would never try to house mandarins with a six line. Heck, I don't ever want a six-line again. IMO, they are nothing but colorful little bullies. A six-line would preclude the addition of any other wrasses or any other copepod feeders.


Your tang selection is not ideal for as small a tank as you have.
See here:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1946079


I would opt for some less aggressive clowns as already suggested. A. ocellaris and A. percula are both fairly moderately tempered when compared to other species of damsels. With selective breeding there are many variants of these two species so lots to choose from.


Good luck with your tank!

 

[cornerjag]

This sucks it seems like the more I want the fish the more I know that I shouldn't get them. If I were to culture Copepods would this increase my chances of success? lol I'm sure it most likely would but how many pods and how often would I have to be supplementing the Copepods. It is almost seemingly not worth the extra effort to add these little guys to the tank.

 

[ilikefish34]

I've never purposefully cultured pods before but I do take excess balls of chaeto and calerpa (grape) from my refugium and add it to the DT. I do this at night so the pods have a chance to get out and populate and then the tangs eat it up at first light. Also, in my 210 that's in the works, I'm having a box siliconed to the back of the tank (matching the overflow) with holes drilled into it to house an in-tank refugium to add to help replenish the pods. Also, you can add one that hangs on the back of the tank. This style overflows into the tank populating unharmed pods rather than being kicked in by the return pump. Some say the return pump doesn't chop em up, but this way makes me 100% sure that they are not. With the right set-up and tank-mates, you should be able to do it but it. When I worked at the LFS, I would tell our customers that every fish eliminates another whether it be it's feeding habits, aggression etc. So my advice was simple, figure out what you want the most in your aquarium and build everything else around it from the size of the tank, the lighting, filtration, substrate, rock work, inverts and other fish. List everything that you may want in the future (you already had an idea already but we threw a monkey wrench in it) and come up with the best combination that will make you happy and then figure out the best order in which to add them.

BTW, if you're trying to impress people with your tank they always seem to like the Yellow Tailed Damsel the best for some stupid reason. Oh, and they love Nemo :/

Best of Luck!

 

[cornerjag]

I would never try to house mandarins with a six line. Heck, I don't ever want a six-line again. IMO, they are nothing but colorful little bullies. A six-line would preclude the addition of any other wrasses or any other copepod feeders.


Your tang selection is not ideal for as small a tank as you have.
See here:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1946079


I would opt for some less aggressive clowns as already suggested. A. ocellaris and A. percula are both fairly moderately tempered when compared to other species of damsels. With selective breeding there are many variants of these two species so lots to choose from.


Good luck with your tank!

Thanks for the encouragement, the more and more I look into this the more it just seems impractical to add the Mandarins to the tank. I was hoping to supplement their diets with frozen food with the addition of copepods. So essentially having a 90G Display with roughly 90lbs live rock a 30G with 20 lbs. of live rock and a Six Line Wrasse is most likely not the appropriate configuration to successfully house a pair of Mandarins?

 

[cornerjag]

I've never purposefully cultured pods before but I do take excess balls of chaeto and calerpa (grape) from my refugium and add it to the DT. I do this at night so the pods have a chance to get out and populate and then the tangs eat it up at first light. Also, in my 210 that's in the works, I'm having a box siliconed to the back of the tank (matching the overflow) with holes drilled into it to house an in-tank refugium to add to help replenish the pods. Also, you can add one that hangs on the back of the tank. This style overflows into the tank populating unharmed pods rather than being kicked in by the return pump. Some say the return pump doesn't chop em up, but this way makes me 100% sure that they are not. With the right set-up and tank-mates, you should be able to do it but it. When I worked at the LFS, I would tell our customers that every fish eliminates another whether it be it's feeding habits, aggression etc. So my advice was simple, figure out what you want the most in your aquarium and build everything else around it from the size of the tank, the lighting, filtration, substrate, rock work, inverts and other fish. List everything that you may want in the future (you already had an idea already but we threw a monkey wrench in it) and come up with the best combination that will make you happy and then figure out the best order in which to add them.

BTW, if you're trying to impress people with your tank they always seem to like the Yellow Tailed Damsel the best for some stupid reason. Oh, and they love Nemo :/

Best of Luck!

Yea people sure do love Nemo lol and the LFS does have some of the Yellow Tailed Damsels but I may stay away from them for the time being. Perhaps I was a little too sure that I could be successful keeping and training the Mandarins to eat frozen. It seems like if I am to have the 2 Mandarins and the Six Line I will have to be feeding Copepods on a regular basis to the tank. I guess I always try and make things as hard as they don't need to be. lol

 

[LIReefer]

Reefs2Go for the bugs...They have some really good buys

 

[cornerjag]

Reefs2Go for the bugs...They have some really good buys

Thanks I was just looking them up about ordering some to stock up my refugium.

 

[Dissy]

Thanks for the encouragement, the more and more I look into this the more it just seems impractical to add the Mandarins to the tank. I was hoping to supplement their diets with frozen food with the addition of copepods. So essentially having a 90G Display with roughly 90lbs live rock a 30G with 20 lbs. of live rock and a Six Line Wrasse is most likely not the appropriate configuration to successfully house a pair of Mandarins?

It would most likely be fine if you ditch the wrasse.. With two, you're going to need a LOT of pods, even if you do convince them to eat frozen... I have one, she does eat frozen but I have to overfeed the tank to make sure she gets her fill, and I only have one other fish with her... At first, I turn the pumps off, and she goes and sits under her bridge rock and waits for it to fall.. Then, when everything is out of the water column, I turn the pumps back on to make the food move again, and she starts stalking again.

I also have a little pod farm going in a 3 gallon tank, that I keep sponges and rock in that I can transfer back and forth..

Rather than picking one kind of frozen, and praying she eats that one, I made "fish soup" with a bunch of different frozen, and some arctic pods mixed up in tank water, and dumped that in. Then grabbed a magnifying glass and plopped my butt in front of the tank watching her to see which she actually ate, and which she just picked at. You'll have to experiment and see what works for you and yours. I'd pay very close attention for at least a month..

Diligence will pay off. They're gorgeous fish.

 

[cornerjag]

It would most likely be fine if you ditch the wrasse.. With two, you're going to need a LOT of pods, even if you do convince them to eat frozen... I have one, she does eat frozen but I have to overfeed the tank to make sure she gets her fill, and I only have one other fish with her... At first, I turn the pumps off, and she goes and sits under her bridge rock and waits for it to fall.. Then, when everything is out of the water column, I turn the pumps back on to make the food move again, and she starts stalking again.

I also have a little pod farm going in a 3 gallon tank, that I keep sponges and rock in that I can transfer back and forth..

Rather than picking one kind of frozen, and praying she eats that one, I made "fish soup" with a bunch of different frozen, and some arctic pods mixed up in tank water, and dumped that in. Then grabbed a magnifying glass and plopped my butt in front of the tank watching her to see which she actually ate, and which she just picked at. You'll have to experiment and see what works for you and yours. I'd pay very close attention for at least a month..

Diligence will pay off. They're gorgeous fish.

Isn't that the truth! I just wish they were as easy to keep as my Powder Brown Tang. I slapped her in and from Day 1 has been eating like a crazy fish. It looks like I will be having to spend some quality time with the tank soon. Perhaps I go with 2 Mandarins or maybe a Six Line and Mandarin combo as long as the Six Line doesn't become aggressive.