Green Mandarin (Synchiropus splendidus) Breeding Log!
- Thread starter mwp
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mwp
In Memoriam
It's certainly "possible" although no one who's successfully reared mandarins has had to drop salinities to something like a "brackish" level. I'm running around 1.025 for SG right now...I may drop it a few in the larval tanks but it seems pretty much "right" for the fish and corals in the breeding tank...maybe down the line I might make a slow adjustment downwards. Salinity problems haven't made it onto the "short list" yet.
Matt
Matt
mwp
In Memoriam
Well, it's the morning of May 23rd and all is quiet in the mandarin's domain...no spawning activity again tonight, lights got turned out early at 11:00 PM 
I *think* the photoperiod shift may have turned them off, but also the female is not getting as fat (granted, things have been hectic so feeding has been cut back a bit simply because I haven't been around to STUFF THEM several times per day)!.
I was looking back through the 10 pages and almost 250 posts in this thread and well, I can't find the links to the pictures of the infamous "lego stirrer", but it did bring to mind that Dwayne's thread on his efforts with Mandarins in 2000 are still "way" up there on the number of views. It's a worthwhile read, especially for anyone else considering undertaking this venture!
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5475
Hopefully tomorrow I'll get the propeller setup going, and later in the week the "real" pro/hatchery grade incubator should be here...I'll start trying to get these guys going with the NEW photoperiod probably after Memorial Day weekend! Granted, they could always surprise us sooner! Hopefully I'll get just enough of a break to get the SS rotifers running smoothly and maybe even give the leptacanthus larvae another shot, then back to the good 'ole mandarins!
MP
I *think* the photoperiod shift may have turned them off, but also the female is not getting as fat (granted, things have been hectic so feeding has been cut back a bit simply because I haven't been around to STUFF THEM several times per day)!.I was looking back through the 10 pages and almost 250 posts in this thread and well, I can't find the links to the pictures of the infamous "lego stirrer", but it did bring to mind that Dwayne's thread on his efforts with Mandarins in 2000 are still "way" up there on the number of views. It's a worthwhile read, especially for anyone else considering undertaking this venture!
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5475
Hopefully tomorrow I'll get the propeller setup going, and later in the week the "real" pro/hatchery grade incubator should be here...I'll start trying to get these guys going with the NEW photoperiod probably after Memorial Day weekend! Granted, they could always surprise us sooner! Hopefully I'll get just enough of a break to get the SS rotifers running smoothly and maybe even give the leptacanthus larvae another shot, then back to the good 'ole mandarins!
MP
mwp
In Memoriam
5-24-06 - lights out at 11:05 PM - the male is REALLY wanting to spawn..the moment the lights went out the fins flared up....the casual interest he had in the female earlier this evening went to "ballistic" labido! I'm not sure the female is quite ready, although it does look like she has a "tube" down.
But here's the wierd part..the male has taken 3 or 4 vicious "strikes" at the female...haven't seen this kind of aggression between the pair for a while. Well..let's see how the evening bears out.
On a related note, the "pelagic incubator" setup arrived today...not sure if it was worth the cash or not as it came with a plastic tank that sells for $20-30 retail that I didn't really need. Anyway, in looking at it, now, seeing how it's designed, I'm HIGHLY doubtful that it will work at all for the mandarins. I guess not all pelagic spawner's eggs float, because this incubator extracts water from the surface! I'm still gonna hook it up and see what happens with eggs in it, but it really doesn't look like it will work at all. Meanwhile I haven't completed construction of the propeller stirrer..still have to pick up the propeller and a few other parts (although there may be some other gerry rigged ways to do this with common aquarium materials). Still need a plug for the motor too.
Well, tonight's either "the night" or another non-starter..all in good time!
MP
But here's the wierd part..the male has taken 3 or 4 vicious "strikes" at the female...haven't seen this kind of aggression between the pair for a while. Well..let's see how the evening bears out.
On a related note, the "pelagic incubator" setup arrived today...not sure if it was worth the cash or not as it came with a plastic tank that sells for $20-30 retail that I didn't really need. Anyway, in looking at it, now, seeing how it's designed, I'm HIGHLY doubtful that it will work at all for the mandarins. I guess not all pelagic spawner's eggs float, because this incubator extracts water from the surface! I'm still gonna hook it up and see what happens with eggs in it, but it really doesn't look like it will work at all. Meanwhile I haven't completed construction of the propeller stirrer..still have to pick up the propeller and a few other parts (although there may be some other gerry rigged ways to do this with common aquarium materials). Still need a plug for the motor too.
Well, tonight's either "the night" or another non-starter..all in good time!
MP
Mr. Ugly
New member
MP,
New fish breeder here. Been reading this thread for all the great info.
Thought I'd share a quick pic of the setup I used for my frogfish eggs. I basically threw a big jar into a cheapie frag prop setup that I had been running.
I thought a couple things might be useful for you.
With the jar in the Rubbermaid storage container, I use the heater and water mass of the prop bin to maintain the larvae container's temp.
The other is that the airlift setup, rigid air tube inside a large diameter tube, gives good gentle water circulation from top to bottom. Better than just a single rigid tube. I thought that might be easier for you than the propeller setup.
I have a few bioblox in the jar and do daily water changes. Hopefully that maintains the water quality well enough.
New fish breeder here. Been reading this thread for all the great info.
Thought I'd share a quick pic of the setup I used for my frogfish eggs. I basically threw a big jar into a cheapie frag prop setup that I had been running.
I thought a couple things might be useful for you.
With the jar in the Rubbermaid storage container, I use the heater and water mass of the prop bin to maintain the larvae container's temp.
The other is that the airlift setup, rigid air tube inside a large diameter tube, gives good gentle water circulation from top to bottom. Better than just a single rigid tube. I thought that might be easier for you than the propeller setup.
I have a few bioblox in the jar and do daily water changes. Hopefully that maintains the water quality well enough.
mwp
In Memoriam
5-31-06 - Well, finally this evening we have courtship, LOTS of courtship. The tank lights went off at 9:30 PM. Courtship in ernest was first noticed just before 10:00 PM. It's now 11:52 and they're STILL going through rises but have yet to spawn.
Mr Ugly, tonight's spawn is going in the "professional" incubator, next spawn in a propeller setup, and then if neither of those produce good results, what the heck I'll try your setup!
Matt
Mr Ugly, tonight's spawn is going in the "professional" incubator, next spawn in a propeller setup, and then if neither of those produce good results, what the heck I'll try your setup!
Matt
mwp
In Memoriam
OK, so ---- that! This incubator from http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/product.detail/iid/3422/cid/1014 is TOTAL BS. As it's listed in the listing - "Commonly used for keeping pelagic and loose benthic fish eggs in circulation during the incubation period." The design didn't "seem" right but hey, with my incubation success rate, anything is worth a shot.
Before ever setting it up, I took a closer look at the design and realized that it indeed DRAINS from the surface. HOW THE HECK is this designed for pelagic spawners? Well, broadcast spawners with non-boyant eggs maybe, but for anything with FLOATING eggs I really couldn't see how it would work. I emailed the company - their response was that a different hatcher (more expensive) was more flexible in design and might suit my needs better...ok...that's an evasive answer that doesn't address my concerns.
First, I bought the whole kit. I set it up this evening in anticipation of the spawn...now let me tell you the kit comes with a large plastic aquarium (maybe 5 gallons?). Well, I'm filling it up and I notice there's water all over the counter...upon closer inspection the bottom of the tank is cracked at one of the "feet". I shrug it off...I wasn't planning on utilizing the mini tank anyways.
So I set up this incubator after filling it with collected eggs...so this part is my mistake.....the tube that runs down the center and feeds water in is full of air. So when I turn on the pump, all the air has to be evacated...it's a turbulent release to say the least. A lot of eggs end up in the overflow larval catcher which is really nothing more than a $3 net breeder.
So I get this thing flowing really slow and scoup the eggs back into the vessel. It's maybe 5 minutes later and guess where all the eggs are...back in the net breeder! My hopes that maybe this device created some sort of current that prevented boyant eggs from staying at the surface (and thus getting drained away) was quickly dashed.
And only then do I realize my FOOT IS WET. @#$@#$!#$!@$!@$#!! The stupid hatching jar has a LEAK at the drain. Well, basically you can expect that this is all going back to Aquatic Eco with a request for a FULL refund...I'm going to leave it up just long enough to find my camera, take a shot of the setup for your review, and that's it. $100 down the drain and a spawn totally wasted...heck those eggs have been through so much turbulence I doubt they're worth even trying to conserve.
Bottom line, avoid this product like the plauge. Prior to tonight, despite my thoughts that it wouldn't work out for the mandarins, I had still considered holding onto it as it likely would make a good tumbler for Cardinalfish eggs. Well scratch that..the thing is a leaky mess that doesn't even fit well onto the side of a tank (don't get me started on the "wedge this blue foam between the vessle and the tank to level it"...heck the drain doesn't even fit all that well over the rim of my tank.
BS, wasted money, spawn probably lost, ticked off. Good night!
MP
Before ever setting it up, I took a closer look at the design and realized that it indeed DRAINS from the surface. HOW THE HECK is this designed for pelagic spawners? Well, broadcast spawners with non-boyant eggs maybe, but for anything with FLOATING eggs I really couldn't see how it would work. I emailed the company - their response was that a different hatcher (more expensive) was more flexible in design and might suit my needs better...ok...that's an evasive answer that doesn't address my concerns.
First, I bought the whole kit. I set it up this evening in anticipation of the spawn...now let me tell you the kit comes with a large plastic aquarium (maybe 5 gallons?). Well, I'm filling it up and I notice there's water all over the counter...upon closer inspection the bottom of the tank is cracked at one of the "feet". I shrug it off...I wasn't planning on utilizing the mini tank anyways.
So I set up this incubator after filling it with collected eggs...so this part is my mistake.....the tube that runs down the center and feeds water in is full of air. So when I turn on the pump, all the air has to be evacated...it's a turbulent release to say the least. A lot of eggs end up in the overflow larval catcher which is really nothing more than a $3 net breeder.
So I get this thing flowing really slow and scoup the eggs back into the vessel. It's maybe 5 minutes later and guess where all the eggs are...back in the net breeder! My hopes that maybe this device created some sort of current that prevented boyant eggs from staying at the surface (and thus getting drained away) was quickly dashed.
And only then do I realize my FOOT IS WET. @#$@#$!#$!@$!@$#!! The stupid hatching jar has a LEAK at the drain. Well, basically you can expect that this is all going back to Aquatic Eco with a request for a FULL refund...I'm going to leave it up just long enough to find my camera, take a shot of the setup for your review, and that's it. $100 down the drain and a spawn totally wasted...heck those eggs have been through so much turbulence I doubt they're worth even trying to conserve.
Bottom line, avoid this product like the plauge. Prior to tonight, despite my thoughts that it wouldn't work out for the mandarins, I had still considered holding onto it as it likely would make a good tumbler for Cardinalfish eggs. Well scratch that..the thing is a leaky mess that doesn't even fit well onto the side of a tank (don't get me started on the "wedge this blue foam between the vessle and the tank to level it"...heck the drain doesn't even fit all that well over the rim of my tank.
BS, wasted money, spawn probably lost, ticked off. Good night!
MP
Mr. Ugly
New member
Ugh.... that is horrible! Btw, I switched to a kreisel type arrangement for the new batch of eggs this week. I turned the jar in the pic on its side and put the lid back on. The lid has a meshed opening, and the side of the jar, (now at the top) has an opening. The whole thing sits in a 10 gallon tank with heater and an AC350. It's easier for me because frogfish eggs are in a jelly raft, and not completely free. The kreisel is more for the larvae though, because they are barely 2mm when hatched.
article on mandarin breeding
article on mandarin breeding
Won't bore you with all the details, but years ago there was an article in FAMA on successfully rearing a couple of mandarins... managed to take one out to 6 months or was it a year.
Started with copepods as a food source, then switched over to rots. Simply used a bare aquarium with an air supply, much like clownfish.
Tough part was 1) having enough/steady supply of copepods and worse was, the growth rate was incredibly slow... after 1 year something like 1/2"
Also... C-Quest (the commercial hatchery that was in Puerto Rico)mentioned in an article the growth rate of mandarins was too slow to be commercially viable.
Doesn't mean you can't do it...just thought I'd inform you if you were unaware
article on mandarin breeding
Won't bore you with all the details, but years ago there was an article in FAMA on successfully rearing a couple of mandarins... managed to take one out to 6 months or was it a year.
Started with copepods as a food source, then switched over to rots. Simply used a bare aquarium with an air supply, much like clownfish.
Tough part was 1) having enough/steady supply of copepods and worse was, the growth rate was incredibly slow... after 1 year something like 1/2"
Also... C-Quest (the commercial hatchery that was in Puerto Rico)mentioned in an article the growth rate of mandarins was too slow to be commercially viable.
Doesn't mean you can't do it...just thought I'd inform you if you were unaware
mwp
In Memoriam
Well, definitely not doing this to make $$$, just doing it to get it done! Granted, I think there are a lot of folks who wouldn't mind purchasing mini mandarins, especially if they are trained on to frozen foods (here comes the cyclopeze!). If I DO get any babies, they're not going to be selling anywhere as close to the prices you see them for sale - more likely we'll have to start the bidding process as I currently have more interest than I can produce (which, granted, when you're producing 0 the demand is infinitely higher).
FWIW,
MP
FWIW,
MP
Mr. Ugly
New member
Matt,
The kreisel is working ok so far. Nothing critical at this point. Just waiting on the babies to hatch from the egg raft... probably by the weekend. Egg raft is easier to deal with than a lot of loose eggs.
I'm hoping that this new container will help maintain the water quality for the fry.
Here's a pic. Egg raft is near the center.
Cool on the SS rotifers. If you ever get to shipping any, lmk! Would love to give those a try for frogfish larvae.
The kreisel is working ok so far. Nothing critical at this point. Just waiting on the babies to hatch from the egg raft... probably by the weekend. Egg raft is easier to deal with than a lot of loose eggs.
I'm hoping that this new container will help maintain the water quality for the fry.
Here's a pic. Egg raft is near the center.
Cool on the SS rotifers. If you ever get to shipping any, lmk! Would love to give those a try for frogfish larvae.
mwp
In Memoriam
Well, some are going to Randy Reed, some are going local, and if no one else wants 'em, next batch is your's Mr. Ugly...you could definitely USE THEM!!! The perpetual problem is that I hate our post office and am out of both little styros AND bags now Darn Elysia eggs...
VERY COOL on the setup....!
Matt
Darn Elysia eggs...VERY COOL on the setup....!
Matt
I'm sorry to interject into this thread with a question, but I am looking for help in regards to my spawning S. picturatus...
Here's a pic of the female. Doesn't she look pregnant? That's the only answer I can give.
And another
When I have more time, I will read this thread in greater depth to learn about your techniques, but for now, thanks for the help!
Here's a pic of the female. Doesn't she look pregnant? That's the only answer I can give.
And another
When I have more time, I will read this thread in greater depth to learn about your techniques, but for now, thanks for the help!
mwp
In Memoriam
Kayla, that female looks just like my female S. splendidus before she spawns. I'd keep a real close eye on your mandarins; if she gets "skinny" overnight well...you missed the spawning. Watch for courtship before the lights go out - how does the male look, fat and healthy too?
MP
MP
Thanks for the help! Yes, the male and female eat frozen foods, and both are pretty plump. In this case, the female looks far more fat than her usual satiated look, though. I will keep an eye on them in the evenings. About how long did your female look "pregnant" beforehand? Thanks again.
mwp
In Memoriam
Kayla, the first time I noticed my mandarin looking that fat I started to take pictures because I too thought she looked WAY TOO FAT, almost "sick". That was the very same evening I got to see my first spawn. In other words, watch them like a hawk tonight...use those moonlights, turn out the pumps, and wait as long as an hour after lights out. Are you running yours on a timer? (not that it matters...mine kinda don't really seem all that keyed in on the photoperiod...well, sort of, but it seems more like once they hit that total darkness time, whenever it is, 5-20 minutes later they usually spawn IF they've been courting prior to lights out. Heck, if I blacked everything out in the middle of the day they'd probably spawn within an hour if they were ready).
Ed, which offer? Too many PMs floating around I think - I'll have to dig through them and figure out what the heck you're talking about THANKS ALL THE SAME, whatever it is I'll probably take you up on it!
Matt
Ed, which offer? Too many PMs floating around I think - I'll have to dig through them and figure out what the heck you're talking about
THANKS ALL THE SAME, whatever it is I'll probably take you up on it!Matt
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