Green Mandarin (Synchiropus splendidus) Breeding Log!

[FuEl]

Hi mwp, not sure if this might be of interest to you. Chanced upon this product today but they did'nt specify the mesh size. Not sure if the mesh will be small enough to accomodate mandarin eggs.

Mini egg hatching jar

Maybe can try a design like this to see if it works better compared to the kreisel?

 

[r00onmac]

i cleaned up that video but ill need to shrink it... its like 120 megs now lol... use professional software, get professional sized files... i will try to find a place to post it... or maybe i can create a Gmail account and upload it for you guys to log in and download... idk...

 

[mwp]

Matt - if it can be compressed...hmm...just have to find a place to transfer a file that size and I could convert it into Flash and serve it up for the masses. iDisk maybe? Myspace? HMM...I wonder if I could get a private FTP site set up for you on my server...we'll figure this one out

FuEL - looks a lot like the incubators that folks have used to tumble bangaii eggs. Granted, I'm pretty happy to shell out $35 for an incubator...hmmmmmmmm

Matt

 

[mwp]

Well, this spawn has so far only gone a touch better...as of 8:00 PM we have ONE larvae that has hatched out...it's obviously very fresh, none of the larvae that look like "sperm" yet...The flow had been turned off for a bit and all the eggs settled pretty quickly...so maybe we're just dealing with fertility issues in the male (he's again looking skinnier than I'd like).

I turned the kriesel back up a bit to keep the eggs in circulation and have also added 1 L of nannochloropsis. The nitrite in the tank was at .5 ppm today, so I also did a 2 gallon water change and dosed with 1ML prime and 5 ML stability. This tank hasn't been set up that long, so it's entirely possible that the sponge filter isn't fully established yet...I'm gonna have to keep an eye on things.

BTW, so far I haven't noticed any dead GBG larvae, but they're showing up in the kriesel (at last count it looked like 40 or 50 in there)

MP

 

[FuEl]

To maximize fertilization rates it would be best if they can be housed in a deeper tank. At least 2 feet would be good. Limited vertical height has been shown to reduce fertilization success in groupers, when they spawn after hitting the surface. Almost 100% fertilization occured when groupers were housed in deeper tanks. Pelagic eggs should be able to float without the aid of any current, those that sink are usually infertile.

 

[mwp]

Well FuEL, I WISH I could give them a deeper tank but alas...it's not in the budget or "allowed" for that matter

With all that said, it again looks like this spawn has ultimately failed. I can no longer find the one that hatched, and well, the rest of the eggs are sinking like stones now. I'm sure there will be more...In the meantime I can focus on the GBG's and Leptacanthus.

MP

 

[mwp]

Well FuEL, I WISH I could give them a deeper tank but alas...it's not in the budget or "allowed" for that matter

With all that said, it again looks like this spawn has ultimately failed. I can no longer find the one that hatched, and well, the rest of the eggs are sinking like stones now. I'm sure there will be more...In the meantime I can focus on the GBG's and Leptacanthus.

MP

 

[mwp]

2:15 AM - it's official, I've ended this latest spawn and pulled the kriesel back out of the larval tank...the GBG larvae were just "trapped" in there and not getting good access to the food and such

Seems like the mandarins are on a schedule only THEY know about...guess we're just waiting and watching again.

MP

 

[mwp]

4:20 PM - Well, I kinda sorta spoke too soon...while looking at the GBG larvae I found ONE mandarin larvae in the tank..and just as quick as I found it I lost it. Harumph...but he's in there. Won't be able to report much unless he suddenly shows up big!

MP

 

[mwp]

5-15-06 - 1:10 AM - those dirty dirty mandarins are at it again! I noticed a bit of quarreling prior to turning out the lights at 12:20 AM...I just noticed some movement in the tank and shined the flashlight on it..sure enough there are the mandarins..rising. AWRT@#%$@#$@#$!! What, are they going to spawn like every 2 days now?

Well, I've turned off the pumps for a bit while I'm watching the leptacanthus and trying to figure out what to do there (he's 2 days "overdue" now). There's two differences between this and most prior spawns. First, I didn't have the pumps turned off in advance - actually at night the powerhead used for wavemaking runs most all of the night. The other difference...no courtship noticed prior to lights out. Perhaps those two reasons are why they're still courting 45 minutes after lights out vs. spawning at 20 minutes past "sunset".

MP

 

[mwp]

OK, experienced pelagic spawner breeders...I just had a kooky idea...what about using a brine shirmp hatchery for egg incubation?

If I get a spawn tonight I may just set one up and give it a shot...the last 2 times with the kriesel have been dismal, and if they keep spawning this frequently I may get MANY chances to experiment.

MP

 

[mwp]

OK, 1:25 AM, here's a twist. They're still courting and unlike most other spawning events, this time they're starting again from relatively low in the tank, giving themselves at least 12" of verticle height to rise in. In general though, if I could make any subjective observation at this piont, I'd say their hearts just don't look all that into it.

HMM..

MP

 

[mwp]

1:27 AM on the clock on my computer - WE HAVE ANOTHER FREAKIN SPAWN

MP

 

[mwp]

1:37 AM - 10 minutes of egg collection is enough for me. Looks like an average sized spawn...maybe 200?

The big question..do I keep the faith and go with the kriesel or not. I still have some GBG larvae in the tank (new record) but there is also Nitrite in the water at last test again (.5 ppm) so once again I've dosed with Stability and Prime. I'm kinda thinking that the parental tank water is a better "media" to work with. Racking the brains......

MP

 

[mwp]

OK, so I had this long diatribe and then for some reason, the computer simply restarted....so you're getting the condensed version this time...I have to go to work in the morning

I want to point out that unlike the past couple spawns, I INSTANTLY started collecting eggs vs. letting them sit on the surface for a few minutes. I don't believe I did that with my one successful hatch and the most recent two I KNOW I let them sit 5-10 minutes before starting collection...not sure what difference that could have, but I'm simply going through and trying to recreate as much as possible for that one successful hatch.

My ultimate decision considered the following:

1. My only successful (percentage wise) hatch was in a freshly set up larval tank that was 50% parental water "harvested" earlier in the day.

2. In it's current state, the larval tank is still running with some Nitrite in the water (tested it earlier today, 0.5 ppm again, treated with Prime and Stability)

3. Setting up a mini kriesel, bowl or brine shrimp hatcher would all be good EXCEPT that the temperature would fall to room temperature (around 70F usually) - that drop could be too much for these eggs.

4. The larval tank is currently full of rotifers, phyto and GBG larvae....none of the incubation attempts I've tried with the phyto/rotifers in the tank have really worked well.

5. The last 2 attempts with the kriesel may have failed for other reasons...I found myself constantly fiddling with the air flow...while I find it gives more precise control it's also a rather delicate balancing act...the stirrer is perhaps a broader and more stable system, and I know it too worked the first time I used it.

So, I ended up setting up the Mini-Jet Stirrer 2L in the parental tank. Rather than try to explain the whole setup, I'll just include a picture:

Now I know this will have some benefits. For starters, the water quality will stay pristine during incubation. Another possibility, that mandarin sperm could still be floating around in the water...by pumping tank water through I could be keeping the eggs in contact with sperm longer (and perhaps increasing fertilization). Finally...it's a REALLY EASY place to observe them during the course of the day as the tank is right next to my desk...oh wait, I'm supposed to be a hour's commute away tomorrow (I hate mondays).

Oh, and I said it before, but the whole reason I'm even up is that I'm waiting on the cardinalfish (leptacanthus) who appears to be determined to NOT let his clutch go this time. SCREW THE CARDINALFISH, we have MANDARINS!

MP

 

[mwp]

OK, so a first head's up..I've spent the last 40 minutes dealing the leptacanthus larvae situation, and before I left I wanted to double check the stirrer. MENTAL NOTE - get a FINER MESH for the bottom. There's maybe a dozen eggs slowly swirling at the surface...more in the water column but it seems that MANY have been flushed through the bottom of the chamber and out into the main tank...NO GOOD. Granted, if in fact the infertile eggs sink and the fertile ones float, then it's all good anyways. We'll see....

MP

 

[jnowell]

Matt, you're a maniac! Keep on trying though...I would have grabbed that Lep. by the tail and shaken those babies out by now

The Lettuce Nudibranch eggs and frags arrived perfectly, thanks! There's very little good info on rearing them, but I'm doing well so far, I'll start a thread with pics soon.

Got another idea for you incubator too, I did a silly experiment once to keep brine hatcher temps up. I set a small air pump on top of my nanno culture lights (which run 24/7). The pump sucked the warm air off the lights, and kept the hatchers consistently at 80 degrees. It did take some experimenting to get the placement of the air pump just right, but it might be helpful in your situation...definitely worth a shot if you're going to continue getting eggs every 48 hours.

Good luck!

Jason

 

[mwp]

Well, as of 9:00 AM this morning there were about 20+ eggs floating around at the surface, plus a few more in the water colum in the stirrer. Keep the faith...I wont' get to look at them until probably 10 PM today.

MP

 

[mwp]

Well, 10 PM rolled around and there was nothing in the stirrer. GRRRRRRR...I think I need a smaller mesh..it very well might have been going fine and maybe external water currents were the culprit (the only difference between this setup vs. putting it in the 10 where it DID work)...OR maybe it was another unfertile spawn...

HMMMM

MP

 

[mwp]

5-16-06 - I cannot believe what I'm seeing! I turned the lights out at 10:51 PM. Over the past few weeks I've had some real LATE nights - seems like all the good stuff happens at night. So I've bumped our tank lighting schedules up a bit..the mandarins are the only tank on a manual schedule so their lighting is never a consistent photoperiod anyways.

WELL...Immediately after turning out the lights guess who's started to RISE again......pumps are off...I'm already REALLY tired but I may just come back in 30 minutes to check things out. As I don't have anything new for the bottom of the stirrer, and the GBG larvae have all but disappeared from the larval tank, if I get a spawn I'm stripping down the 10 and filling it with 5 gallons from the parents (strained through a 10 micron sieve) and either 5 fresh gallons or 5 gallons from another tank. Glad I started the evening EARLY this time

MP