Green Mandarin (Synchiropus splendidus) Breeding Log!
- Thread starter mwp
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Love them milk "containers"--I grow rots in them to keep cultures going inbetween hatches. They do very well in summer in my basement.
Before I have clowns to feed, I expand them into kitty litter buckets.
I can't use the "j ___" word, or Edgar will lose his normally stellar self control.
Cheers,
Kathy
Before I have clowns to feed, I expand them into kitty litter buckets.
I can't use the "j ___" word, or Edgar will lose his normally stellar self control.
Cheers,
Kathy
Managed to dig up this paper.
Sadovy, Y., Mitcheson, G., Rasotto, M. B., 2001. Early development of the mandarinfish, Synchiropus splendidus (Callionymidae), with notes on its fishery and potential for culture. Aquarium Sciences and Conservation 3: 253-263.
According to them, the eggs will be adhesive and buoyant in the beginning. The egg mass will only start breaking up as they drift away. They attribute hatching success to temperature. If insufficient time is taken to acclimatize the eggs to the temperature of the water in the rearing vessel, hatching success will be low. They did'nt use any kreisels, just a normal aquarium with gentle aeration by airstones.
Sadovy, Y., Mitcheson, G., Rasotto, M. B., 2001. Early development of the mandarinfish, Synchiropus splendidus (Callionymidae), with notes on its fishery and potential for culture. Aquarium Sciences and Conservation 3: 253-263.
According to them, the eggs will be adhesive and buoyant in the beginning. The egg mass will only start breaking up as they drift away. They attribute hatching success to temperature. If insufficient time is taken to acclimatize the eggs to the temperature of the water in the rearing vessel, hatching success will be low. They did'nt use any kreisels, just a normal aquarium with gentle aeration by airstones.
mwp
In Memoriam
Lusi, someone who shall remain nameless (to protect the conspiring parties) emailed me a copy in PDF format. I'd rather not post it up for free distribution (in violation of copyright), thus my suggestions that folks search it out. Unfortunately it costs like $30 to get it from many places.
Matt
Matt
mwp
In Memoriam
Yup, that's the paper I've been citing going back.
I too had noticed their reference to temperature influenceing hatching success. I've ruled that one out most all along as I've been using water from the spawning tank when collecting the eggs, thus no issues with temp. If I start putting more effort into sterilized water, yes the temps will have to match.
Up until the point where our Poop Machine (Alice the dog) ate my coralife digital thermometer, I could've told you that the larval rearing tank is usually within 1F of the spawning tank. Looking back at my successes and failures, it seems that when using the parental water it hasn't much mattered what temperature they're ultimately kept at - my 11 hatch happened at room temp (around 72F) while my hatch of 25+ was around 79F. Bad hatches have happened at both levels.
FWIW,
Matt
mwp
In Memoriam
One more tidbit for the moment, Frank Baensch was kind enough to respond with his thoughts - they more or less mirror the suggestions made by Ed and RSMAN and others here. I emailed back to get his permission to post his response here.
Really starting to lean towards diet or other factors influencing fertilization rates; aka either the pair is young, the tank is simply too short (which I have a remedy for that I'm NOT really wanting to do), diet is off, not harvesting the eggs quickly enough, or perhaps I have that "bum steer". Starting to consider swapping out the male for a different one (but would keep the first one around) as it's easier to find males than females...lets hope the problem isn't with the female being a "bum"!
MP
Really starting to lean towards diet or other factors influencing fertilization rates; aka either the pair is young, the tank is simply too short (which I have a remedy for that I'm NOT really wanting to do), diet is off, not harvesting the eggs quickly enough, or perhaps I have that "bum steer". Starting to consider swapping out the male for a different one (but would keep the first one around) as it's easier to find males than females...lets hope the problem isn't with the female being a "bum"!
MP
mwp
In Memoriam
Yes Luis, looking back at what I wrote, I see exactly where Kathy is coming from. Milk. Jug. Sometimes I feel like I'm 12 
I finally get it (and I should know the american slang). There will be an editorial revision when the book comes out
Aha wla200 - spawning well below the surface then. I wonder how Sadovy et. al. were collecting the spawns then..net, bag, slurp gun, some other type of container? In any case, the fact that my mandarins hit the surface and spawn with their backs practically coming out of the water definitely isn't the natural order of things and could be playing a role in possible "fertility" problems.
MP
I finally get it (and I should know the american slang). There will be an editorial revision when the book comes out Aha wla200 - spawning well below the surface then. I wonder how Sadovy et. al. were collecting the spawns then..net, bag, slurp gun, some other type of container? In any case, the fact that my mandarins hit the surface and spawn with their backs practically coming out of the water definitely isn't the natural order of things and could be playing a role in possible "fertility" problems.
MP
OldmillXxX
Premium Member
Possible dumb question here, but are you giving the eggs enough time to mix with the male's "juice" in order to ensure a better chance for fertilization? You're not scooping too early by chance in an attempt to gather the eggs before they sink?
Just throwing out ideas.
Just throwing out ideas.
mwp
In Memoriam
Tim, definitely an idea I've had. In my earliest attempts I scooped eggs immediately..in some of the later attempts I scooped eggs after 10-20 minutes of just floating in the tank (keep in mind that pumps are off, so there is little "current" for mixing). Overall, I don't "feel" there's any lack of sufficient contact time between the eggs and milt...if anything my gut feeling is that harvesting them sooner has worked out a bit better.
FWIW,
Matt
FWIW,
Matt
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7567137#post7567137 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mwp
Yes Luis, looking back at what I wrote, I see exactly where Kathy is coming from. Milk. Jug. Sometimes I feel like I'm 12
Aha wla200 - spawning well below the surface then. I wonder how Sadovy et. al. were collecting the spawns then..net, bag, slurp gun, some other type of container? In any case, the fact that my mandarins hit the surface and spawn with their backs practically coming out of the water definitely isn't the natural order of things and could be playing a role in possible "fertility" problems.
MP
you've probably seen this already but its the best description I've seen of what we saw:
http://www.fathomspub.com/cgi/articlesFullView.pl/32/index.html
I'd have thought the males would "improvise" successfully though, I may have missed it but how high is your tank?
Luis A M
Premium Member
Says the dictionary:<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7567137#post7567137 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mwp
Yes Luis, looking back at what I wrote, I see exactly where Kathy is coming from. Milk. Jug. Sometimes I feel like I'm 12
MP
JUG
jail,(local)prison
a bottle or flask (or a drink or shot) of whisky
a bank
(underworld)a safe,a strongbox
Still cueless about what image arose in Kathy´s mind.
Guess some bizarre code she and Ed share.:lol:
mwp
In Memoriam
That LINK is awesome - only got to skim it so far but nope I HAVE NOT seen that before! SWEET!
Ah, the tank is 16" high, but the mandarins seldom start their mating dance low..usually they start ascending from less than 6" below the surface (still "on the reef" in this tank, where the rockwork goes up to the water's surface in one corner). I'm thinking of taking out a lot of the rockwork to give them more open water to do their thing...that's a "sacrifice" I'm having a hard time making (because I don't have any place for the corals and rocks)!
MP
mwp
In Memoriam
6-15-06 - well, its 11:45 - we had courtship as early on as 10:30 PM but the tank was in dire need of a water change (I overcame red slime and now I have worse, brown souper goooooo). The 3 gallon water change didn't seem to bug them one bit...the lights are still on and they are still rising. I'm going to check the water in the larval tank...I was out of salt until this evening so no chance to make STERILE water yet, but if the larval tank is OK I can try setting up the first flow-through 1 gallon kriesel and try running it off the minijet....it's worth a shot, no?
More soon!
Matt
More soon!
Matt
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