Green Mandarin (Synchiropus splendidus) Breeding Log!

[BrianPlankis]

Matt,

Have you ever considered starting a culture of these copepods? Or are they bigger than rotifers? Didn't know, but thought I would ask:

http://www.essentiallivefeeds.com/Prices.html

Or what about ciliates?

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/oct2002/breeder.htm

I know you want a good hatch first, but some of the things you said earlier got me thinking about trying to identify an appropriate first food.

Brian

 

[mwp]

Brian, I kinda have, but I have this great copepod sp. in my main tank that I'm trying to capture and cultivate...it free-swims and kinda looks like a freshwater cyclops! I was going to try to capture some again (the adults are BEYOND "fast") but then something stopped me for now...

Some updates on the Synchiropus front - the mandarins are courting again, looks like a spawn this evening!

Female #2 has recouperated WELL and is getting along just fine with our male Red Scooter Blenny (whom is in need of some mature female girlfriends BTW...anyone have adult female RSB's they're willing to part with?)

I have some freshly mixed water on hand, as well as some other ideas at my disposal. The larval tank is filled with 7.5 day old Greenbanded Gobies, so my current working plan for any eggs is to try placing a 2 liter bottle, closed, with an air feed (just like phytoplankton culture setups) into the 10 gallon tank with bleached parental water or the freshly mixed water (haven't decided yet). From there, who really knows, but it's worth a shot vs. just letting the spawn go to complete waste.

More soon (likely).

Matt

 

[mwp]

8-9-06, 12:25 AM, WE HAVE A SPAWN! - OK, so it actually happened maybe 3-5 minutes ago...as usual the mandarins made many rises and at least a few splashes...I just didn't notice the eggs, but I noticed that the pair hadn't made any more splashes at the surface...a quick shine of the flashlight revealed the eggs.

Ultimately I'm very torn...considering the current state of the GBG's I kinda don't want to mess with their tank at all..the glue on the side of a 2 liter has me a bit pensive about just tossing it in! That, and there are probably going to be 100 more GBG larvae tomorrow which I may just toss in to help keep the rotifer population in check...might be neat to show them side by side too! I guess I need another 10 gallon tank for sure now - harumph...have to convince Renee!

I'll let you all know what I end up doing with these eggs..I may just throw them ALL under the microscope for time lapse.

Matt

 

[BrianPlankis]

Matt,

Oh to be in your situation, wondering what fish larvae to try to raise hehe. Personally I would try to raise the GBG babies for right now, just to get some success and some income from selling the babies. That might help convince Renee

"You see sweetie, I made X dollars from the GBG babies, now if I only had another 10 gallon tank I could try to raise the mandarin babies at the same time....."

Seriously, just thought I would offer my 0.02.

Brian

 

[mwp]

OK, so the spawn was probably around 350-400 eggs. They were slowly acclimated, a few ML at a time, to the freshly mixed water over the last 20 minutes or so. When the concentration of new water was the vast majority of the container, I added them into the larger (0.5 gallon) specimen cup, and hung it in the larval tank. So basically what we have here are eggs in clean (but not entirely sterile) water, being bought up to temp, with nothing else going on...no meds. I'm going to run a VERY GENTLE air feed with an air stone for some very minimal circulation..i.e. one tiny stream of bubbles from the airstone is all I'm looking for...just something to keep the water moving vs. completely stagnant.

I don't suspect anything special in terms of a hatch, but until I have an empty 10 gallon at my disposal I'm going to have to continue to try small hatching vessels.

FWIW,

Matt

 

[bboersma79]

Matt,

I have a 15g long I need to get rid of let me know if you want it. Was used as my sump before, it is in good shape.

 

[apistomaster]

Matt,
You should build a little set up like I did for some killie fry. Modified for this purpose I used 5 one gal. shoe boxes with the lids. I built a small wet dry filter and used a five gallon bucket sump. I pumped the filtered water to another one mounted higher than your 1 gal. tanks. I used gravity feeds so I could take a tank off-line without effecting the flow through remaining tanks. I always install a return overflow on the reservoir tank to the wet/dry sump. All shoe boxes were provided a pvc pipe overflow into a main 2 inch pvc waste water return to filter. Keeps many small fish concentrated in close proximity to food in a contant flow of clean water which is virtually infinitely adjustable, handy feature.
Larry

 

[mwp]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7906239#post7906239 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bboersma79
Matt,

I have a 15g long I need to get rid of let me know if you want it. Was used as my sump before, it is in good shape.

Wow, thanks for such a generous offer! Unfortunately it's not a monetary thing on a 10 gallon tank, it's 100% a GF thing I have the current 10 on the lower section of a two-tier wrough iron stand...the top...well, it's simply just there, empty, with nothing on it!

Larry, that's a really cool idea! How do you keep fry from going down the overflows though?

Matt

 

[apistomaster]

Matt,
The key word is that the inflow is infinitely adjustable you would be probably flowing very slowly. Just stuff a piece of filter floss in the outlet. You will be checking on larvae frequently so watch for signs of dirty floss holding back the flow. This is a temporary set up for larvae and newly metamorphized larvae but should be stable and clean enough to increase survival. If you use it for larger fry replace the floss with nylon screen. I can't think of it now but 20 drops a minute would turn over the water at least 5 times a day with little current.

 

[klondar]

Matt,

First I want to say that you are doing an awsome job both with your attempts and your documentation. Although I currently do not breed anything, I am planning on dabbleing in clowns and bangaii's in the near future and the information your sharing is invaluable. But while following the thread a few questions have come up that if answered may help with your hurdles.

First, I have done a bit of reading and it seems that Manderins live in 3-50 feet of water on or near reefs, but my question really is that living where they do, and with their diet pretty much requireing that they not stray. Coupled with the fact that they are reletivly small fish that would be easy prey if not for the cover of the rocks. My quandry is this, They release there eggs int the water collum to rise to the surface and float on the currents of the wind and waves. They then hatch about a day later and spend several more days in the water collum until they finaly settle out and find safe homes on the reef. With the time they spend in the water collum and at the surface while hatching where is the current that would very likly move them to the open ocean and thus prevent them from settling in an approprate locations. It seems that there must be little current and wave action in there spawning area for them to be successful.

Also another observation, They release eggs at night (early evening/dusk), could they need a proper light cycle to properly develop, We tend to light our spaces as we need it...

In the wild are spawning events tied to tieds/moonphases that might help answer the question above. Spawning durring full moon might indicate that some level of light is needed 24/7 as they develop/mature tides might counter normal currents and allow for setteling in the proper locations...

Again just some thoughs I've had that may have even been covered or understood, if this has already been covered then please ignore my ramblings.

-Glen

 

[mwp]

Glen, it seems entirely reasonable that ambient 24/7 light could help with hatch rates...I'll have to put that on the list of things to try! It's worth noting that MY mandarin spawns seem to be somewhat tied to both the Full and NEW moon however...pretty much they'll spawn anytime but it definitely looks like there's a trend to spawn more around those times, if not on those actual days.

I also recall reading somewhere that mandarins spawn EVERY DAY on the reef. Basically, I think they're taking the big-picture approach, laying THOUSANDS of eggs in the hopes that one or two make it.

Matt

 

[klondar]

Well the every day part kind of puts a damper on trigger events, I agree with the lost of spawning to get a handfull to adulthood, but I would be inclined to believe that this would be a hugely inefficent method of reproduction if only a handfull made it to the point of settleing. There must e somthing happening that keeps the free-floting mass and fry where they need to be for their best chance of survival, othwise why not just lay nests and be assured that the young will be where they need to have the best chance to survive and find a proper home on the reef.

My best guess is that they pick spots with little to no overt flow or a consistant in/out flow that would work to keep the mass and fry over the reef.

With that said, I like your current attempt, very low air flow, I'd even try no aristone and just 1 or 2 bubbles per seccond streight from the airline.

The other alternitive would be to replicat a surf zone with heavy wild flow and air. Perhaps they are not as fragile as they are thought to be. This might fit the idea that the egges are developing right up untill they sink or pop (hatch), perhaps a bit of help is needed to get the shell cracked so to speak...

-Glen

 

[apistomaster]

Pelagic eggs drift everwhere leaving mandarins' fate up to dumb luck. Also why they spawn frequently so the total chances of success are improved through the number of eggs they can possibly produce.

 

[Luis A M]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7906379#post7906379 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by apistomaster
Matt,
You should build a little set up like I did for some killie fry. Modified for this purpose I used 5 one gal. shoe boxes with the lids. I built a small wet dry filter and used a five gallon bucket sump. I pumped the filtered water to another one mounted higher than your 1 gal. tanks. I used gravity feeds so I could take a tank off-line without effecting the flow through remaining tanks. I always install a return overflow on the reservoir tank to the wet/dry sump. All shoe boxes were provided a pvc pipe overflow into a main 2 inch pvc waste water return to filter. Keeps many small fish concentrated in close proximity to food in a contant flow of clean water which is virtually infinitely adjustable, handy feature.
Larry

Good approach,Larry
I´m currently building a larval system along these lines,and plan to hook all larval tanks to it.It´s versatile and allows upgrading features like filter,carbon,UV and eventually skimmer and ozone.
Regarding outflow strainers, I make them with different mesh sizes depending on the size of the larvae or the food items you need to keep in/out.

 

[FishGuttz]

Its becoming apparent, that the natural hatch rate of Mandarins must be abysmally small. If thousands of pairs of mandarins laid 500-600 eggs every evening and the hatch rate were high, the reefs would be inundated with Mandarins even if only a small percentage made it to maturity.

Matt,
I think to get your hatch rates up, your going to have to get 10 pairs of Mandarins!!!

 

[mwp]

OK, that was a bust - chalk up a 0-hatch!

Matt

 

[mwp]

8-10-06, 12:28 AM, we have a spawn! - it happened in the last 20 minutes. Gonna put 'em all under the microscope I think and do another time lapse..or maybe just dump them in with the goby larvae

Matt

 

[mwp]

So, based on the few counts I've done in the past, this was a BIG spawn, maybe around the 600 mark. However, at least 100 to 150 or more eggs were not collected as they were clinging to the sides and back wall of the aquarium. I have two theories...either they spawned right in the corner and splashed a lot of eggs out of the water, OR they spawned IMMEDIATELY after I turned off the pumps (they had been off since 11, around midnight I turned them on briefly to keep some circulation going).

I've opted for time lapse again...I have my hands full with the GBG's!

 

[bboersma79]

I understand the GF thing, I get crap when I set up my quarantine tank, it is on the kitchen counter but come on...

 

[mwp]

Alrighty, so we had a great hatch and they all DIED! They started hatching around 3:30 PM, and were still hatching at 5:00 PM.

I left them under the microscope and did another 1 frame per minute time lapse video...it didn't turn out all that well so I'm not going to post it. What I DID get was 3 videos of the larvae actually hatching out of the eggs. The first one is shot at 1 frame per second (4 seconds of video = 1 minute), the 2nd two are shot at 1 frame per 5 seconds (4 seconds of video = 5 minutes).

http://www.cichlidrecipe.com/nanoreef/mandarin_hatch1.avi

http://www.cichlidrecipe.com/nanoreef/mandarin_hatch2.avi

http://www.cichlidrecipe.com/nanoreef/mandarin_hatch3.avi

So I came back to the microscope after letting it shoot another time lapse of a larvae that was still in the egg at 5:30...while the video's quality isn't sufficient to show here, basically what happens is the larvae appears to have died, and within a couple hours turns into a white crumped mass instead of hatching. In fact, it appears that MANY of the larvae die at varying stages before hatching and quickly decompose. Food for thought.

Anyway, I was hoping to maybe put the larvae that had hatched in with the GBG larvae, but leaving them in the container with all the dead (and decomposing eggs) must have killed them all off...I had a bunch of non-moving larvae sitting on the bottom of the little container.

I took a picture that pretty much will give you an idea of how many actually hatched vs. how many eggs were in there. It was by all prior experience, a relatively "VERY GOOD HATCH"! I literally did NOTHING other than get 99%+ of the parental water out from the eggs, and placed all the eggs in the small enclosed container. No circulation, no nothing, and a freakin' TINY container, and I get one of the best hatches to date. This literally makes no sense and blows most of the theories out of the water. I'm stumped.

There are many more eggs off to the perimeter of the circular container...most of the larvae were concentrated in the center. Also note the unhatched eggs with DEAD white larvae in them. These were shot at 10X with the QX5 + my LED flashlight providing additional light from the front and slightly above...it really makes a big difference in what the microscope is able to pick up (good for future refernce).

MP