Green Mandarin (Synchiropus splendidus) Breeding Log!
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angelsil
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<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8919433#post8919433 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mwp
1-7-07 - Sad news - I just found our #2 Male, FATBOY, dried up on the floor
Guess I'm looking for ANOHTER new male mandarin!
Matt
Blargh.
Sorry to hear that. It always baffles me that they are jumpers, but I've lost a pair that way too.
DivaMan
New member
Hmm, very sad. 
Hey what size tank are they in, and was there any particular method you used to get them to take to the formula one pellets? My solo male seems interested in the prime reef flakes I feed, and already eats mysis. But Im trying to find another way to get him nice and fully plump, while getting him a mate that is fully plump, without having to culture trigger pods.
Hey what size tank are they in, and was there any particular method you used to get them to take to the formula one pellets? My solo male seems interested in the prime reef flakes I feed, and already eats mysis. But Im trying to find another way to get him nice and fully plump, while getting him a mate that is fully plump, without having to culture trigger pods.
mwp
In Memoriam
ACK, I didn't even post that I got a replacement for Male #2 last week! He was a fresh import, basically straight out of the bag. Let's hope. Meanwhile, the female and ONLY the female in Pair #1 is LOADED with ICH...I had a total meltdown of sorts in their tank...a literal explosion a couple days ago. I'm going nuts with water changes to dilute free swimming parasites and threw my spare UV on the tank...there's already a cleaner shrimp in there too but the mandarin is stayin' the hell away! I dealt with this once before and it took a LONG time with the tank that housed Pair #2 (Fatboy actually brought the ICH into the tank in the first place, don't ask me how the heck it showed up in Pair #1's tank, I did make a new addition but I also know that it likely was NOT the source).
Divaman, I got REALLY lucky with "Fatboy"..he took pellets from Day 1 (well, actually probably Day 2). "Fatboy" had been a long term captive and customer return...no doubt HE learned about pellet foods long before he came to me.
The Red Scooter Blennies just seemed to "pick it up" as well. Meanwhile, I'm still not 100% sure that the #1 pair of mandarins have taken to pellets, although it seems like female #2 is taking them, I think watching the RSB's and Fatboy helped her figure it out.
The one thing I HAVE tried, although admittedly not with any dedication, is to add pellets into the feeding station along with the frozen foods that they eat. This would be my #1 suggestion...get them trained on frozen, get them trained on a feeding station, and they make the connection that feeding station = food. In my guestimate, it's a small leap in a mandarin's brain that anything showing up within the feeding station *could* be food, especially if other known food items are also present...from their they just have to get used to eating it.
If I was REALLY trying to get them to eat pellets, I would also fast them a day a week, and then make sure that on the break-fast day the FIRST FOOD offered up is the pellets. Hunger is a strong motivator, even if you don't eat like a grouper!
Anxiously awaiting the time when I don't need to raise percs (to pay for the hobby during Renee's student teaching months) so I can get back to really trying to raise the mandarins. I may have a good solution actually, as someone is interested in taking my percs at 30 days and growing them out...sure it's a reduced price sale, but it generates income and may be enough to keep one tank open for "experimenting"....we'll see how it works out!
FWIW,
Matt
Divaman, I got REALLY lucky with "Fatboy"..he took pellets from Day 1 (well, actually probably Day 2). "Fatboy" had been a long term captive and customer return...no doubt HE learned about pellet foods long before he came to me.
The Red Scooter Blennies just seemed to "pick it up" as well. Meanwhile, I'm still not 100% sure that the #1 pair of mandarins have taken to pellets, although it seems like female #2 is taking them, I think watching the RSB's and Fatboy helped her figure it out.
The one thing I HAVE tried, although admittedly not with any dedication, is to add pellets into the feeding station along with the frozen foods that they eat. This would be my #1 suggestion...get them trained on frozen, get them trained on a feeding station, and they make the connection that feeding station = food. In my guestimate, it's a small leap in a mandarin's brain that anything showing up within the feeding station *could* be food, especially if other known food items are also present...from their they just have to get used to eating it.
If I was REALLY trying to get them to eat pellets, I would also fast them a day a week, and then make sure that on the break-fast day the FIRST FOOD offered up is the pellets. Hunger is a strong motivator, even if you don't eat like a grouper!
Anxiously awaiting the time when I don't need to raise percs (to pay for the hobby during Renee's student teaching months) so I can get back to really trying to raise the mandarins. I may have a good solution actually, as someone is interested in taking my percs at 30 days and growing them out...sure it's a reduced price sale, but it generates income and may be enough to keep one tank open for "experimenting"....we'll see how it works out!
FWIW,
Matt
DivaMan
New member
One more quick question, nearly the only food my mandarin gets is mysis, he picks the occasional pod once in a while, but he litterally destroyed my pod population. I really just try to make sure he gets enough, and I am not sure he recognizes teh mysis as food unless it is moving sightly. I think Ill try the brine method you used. So from what you said teh only way to keep a pair, letalone two in a small tank, is too feed a lot?
mwp
In Memoriam
Divaman, I think you kinda answered your own question when you refer to your mandarin "destorying" your pod population...what's he gonna eat now??? 
I'm not sure you need to go all the way back to the "breeder net live brine training method" (page 2 in the first 40 pages of this split thread, half way down the 2nd post) ...if he'll take frozen mysis, well, he'll take frozen mysis and I think the "movement" factor could easily be overcome because the thing SMELLS right and LOOKS right, he may fast for a little while but hunger should get him over the "movement" hump.
I know it sounds scary, but try the feeding station now....he may not "pick up" on it right away, but as long as you don't have other fish that are "pickers" when feeding, the food will just sit there uneaten until he finds it. There's a lot of info on feeding stations for Seahorses, I actually started with Melev's Mandarin Diner method (google it) but found solutions I liked better amoung the seahorse crowd (i.e. I didn't like the jar in any way shape or form, but if you have pickers sharing the tank, you'll need to go the jar route).
Basically, add some food in the morning, and if it's still there in the afternoon, remove it, and add some fresh. Hunger and natural "curiosity" should help him find the feeding station...a few weeks of only finding food there should get him "hooked". From there, simply introduce new foods with existing foods, or try a fast followed by the new food in the familiar setting.
All in all, if your mandarin is eating frozen, I think the hard part is over. Just keep in mind that EVERYTHING with adjusting mandarins seems to be a slow process of weeks or months. I posted a poll somewhere asking how long folks had maintained mandarins...it seemed that for a larger part it was either less than a year or 5 or more. Don't know what their natural lifespans are, but I think I've broken the year mark and then some.
Of course, with all of this comes the caveot of being prepared for an uncooperative mandarin...watch for the telltale signs that problems are arising (i.e. flat or concave belly, that long "Rib spine" starting to show as that protruding bony line running down their laterals etc...
One last thought regarding your intial question - "So from what you said teh only way to keep a pair, letalone two in a small tank, is too feed a lot?" - YES. I'm not happy until my mandarins are FAT like little sausages (someone wrote that about mandarins somewhere and looking at my long-term residents, I'd say that's a GREAT description).
'Nite!
MP
I'm not sure you need to go all the way back to the "breeder net live brine training method" (page 2 in the first 40 pages of this split thread, half way down the 2nd post) ...if he'll take frozen mysis, well, he'll take frozen mysis and I think the "movement" factor could easily be overcome because the thing SMELLS right and LOOKS right, he may fast for a little while but hunger should get him over the "movement" hump.
I know it sounds scary, but try the feeding station now....he may not "pick up" on it right away, but as long as you don't have other fish that are "pickers" when feeding, the food will just sit there uneaten until he finds it. There's a lot of info on feeding stations for Seahorses, I actually started with Melev's Mandarin Diner method (google it) but found solutions I liked better amoung the seahorse crowd (i.e. I didn't like the jar in any way shape or form, but if you have pickers sharing the tank, you'll need to go the jar route).
Basically, add some food in the morning, and if it's still there in the afternoon, remove it, and add some fresh. Hunger and natural "curiosity" should help him find the feeding station...a few weeks of only finding food there should get him "hooked". From there, simply introduce new foods with existing foods, or try a fast followed by the new food in the familiar setting.
All in all, if your mandarin is eating frozen, I think the hard part is over. Just keep in mind that EVERYTHING with adjusting mandarins seems to be a slow process of weeks or months. I posted a poll somewhere asking how long folks had maintained mandarins...it seemed that for a larger part it was either less than a year or 5 or more. Don't know what their natural lifespans are, but I think I've broken the year mark and then some.
Of course, with all of this comes the caveot of being prepared for an uncooperative mandarin...watch for the telltale signs that problems are arising (i.e. flat or concave belly, that long "Rib spine" starting to show as that protruding bony line running down their laterals etc...
One last thought regarding your intial question - "So from what you said teh only way to keep a pair, letalone two in a small tank, is too feed a lot?" - YES. I'm not happy until my mandarins are FAT like little sausages (someone wrote that about mandarins somewhere and looking at my long-term residents, I'd say that's a GREAT description).
'Nite!
MP
mwp
In Memoriam
BTW, FWIW, if I had the room, someone a while ago suggested the best way for me to turn a buck on mandarins wasn't breeding them, but probably selling pairs trained onto frozen foods. MAN I WISH I had the facilities to do that...it'd be a REALLY good thing for some WC mandarins that otherwise probably won't last all that long!
Oh well, FWIW, the info is in the thread on how it's done, no secrets there.
(man, I REALLY want to get back to the mandarin babies...heck I'd settle for the Red Scooters!)
MP
Oh well, FWIW, the info is in the thread on how it's done, no secrets there.
(man, I REALLY want to get back to the mandarin babies...heck I'd settle for the Red Scooters!)
MP
apistomaster
New member
Hi Matt,
It has been a few months since I last checked in on your progress with the Mandarins but I see that you are dealing with setbacks so likely it will be awhile before you resume trying to get the larvae through the early stages.
Sorry to hear that they jumped out.
Larry Waybright
It has been a few months since I last checked in on your progress with the Mandarins but I see that you are dealing with setbacks so likely it will be awhile before you resume trying to get the larvae through the early stages.
Sorry to hear that they jumped out.
Larry Waybright
mwp
In Memoriam
Well Apisto, the biggest setback is not having the free larval tank to try them in...I think at any moment if I could get the tank free for 2 weeks, I could try getting my crazy copepod / ss rot soup going again, and then try hatching babies from Pair #1 (if they are still spawning). I have to raise clownfish to help pay some bills...that's just the way it goes right now!
But yeah, setback after setback lately. The Seahores/Mandarin tank that houses pair #1 is going through a MAJOR outbreak of ICH. I'm doing all I can short of medicating (as it IS a reef tank) and I may even move some babies around to free up a larval tank to use as a hospital tank. The odd thing to me is that while Female #1 is completely LOADED with ICH (which IS supposed to be highly unusual for Mandarins), Male #1 is entirely clear, not a mark on him.
I'm just totally PO'd at the tank, it's been running fine since it's inception, there were no new introductions that I can readily "Blame" for the outbreak, lost the spare male Barbouri (to be fair I actually put it down, it was on it's way out). Doing massive daily water changes to control the parasite population, the tank has a UV on it, I'm dosing with Marine Max daily (Vitamins and Probiotic Bacteria), I'm dosing with full doses of Novaqua Plus to help with slime coat, I'm dropping the salinty (NOT Hyposalinity, but going for 1.020 ,1.019, however low I can get it without killing the corals to help ease the osmoregulation pressures on the fish), I'm cleaning the prefilter sponges daily (to help remove any parasites that are settling in there). I'm keeping the fish PUMPED full of food, leaning towards selcon enrichment due to increased caloric content, am double dosing Reef Plus (Vitamins / Amino Acids), have done freshwater dips (will probably suck it up and do another round tonight), basically everything I can short of throwing copper or dropping salinity to the point where it'd kill the invertebrate life in the tank.
That's the way it goes sometimes I suppose...January overall has been a BAD month compared to anything I went through in the last year.
FWIW,
Matt
But yeah, setback after setback lately. The Seahores/Mandarin tank that houses pair #1 is going through a MAJOR outbreak of ICH. I'm doing all I can short of medicating (as it IS a reef tank) and I may even move some babies around to free up a larval tank to use as a hospital tank. The odd thing to me is that while Female #1 is completely LOADED with ICH (which IS supposed to be highly unusual for Mandarins), Male #1 is entirely clear, not a mark on him.
I'm just totally PO'd at the tank, it's been running fine since it's inception, there were no new introductions that I can readily "Blame" for the outbreak, lost the spare male Barbouri (to be fair I actually put it down, it was on it's way out). Doing massive daily water changes to control the parasite population, the tank has a UV on it, I'm dosing with Marine Max daily (Vitamins and Probiotic Bacteria), I'm dosing with full doses of Novaqua Plus to help with slime coat, I'm dropping the salinty (NOT Hyposalinity, but going for 1.020 ,1.019, however low I can get it without killing the corals to help ease the osmoregulation pressures on the fish), I'm cleaning the prefilter sponges daily (to help remove any parasites that are settling in there). I'm keeping the fish PUMPED full of food, leaning towards selcon enrichment due to increased caloric content, am double dosing Reef Plus (Vitamins / Amino Acids), have done freshwater dips (will probably suck it up and do another round tonight), basically everything I can short of throwing copper or dropping salinity to the point where it'd kill the invertebrate life in the tank.
That's the way it goes sometimes I suppose...January overall has been a BAD month compared to anything I went through in the last year.
FWIW,
Matt
apistomaster
New member
I won't go into some disasters of my own but suffice it to say they cost about $1000. Disease caused.
I have a thought, FWIW, the use of NovaAqua may actually inhibit the effectiveness of your medications. The stuff can chelate an awful lot of things so that they become sequestered and ineffective. It's a thought.
I have been raising a lot of Corydoras sterbai to help defray my costs so I definitely understand.
Larry Waybright
I have a thought, FWIW, the use of NovaAqua may actually inhibit the effectiveness of your medications. The stuff can chelate an awful lot of things so that they become sequestered and ineffective. It's a thought.
I have been raising a lot of Corydoras sterbai to help defray my costs so I definitely understand.
Larry Waybright
freaknmetalhead
New member
Any new updates!! It took me so long to get through the threads!
I myself am experiencing a mating pair of mandarins and am going to try hatching myself even though the results might be few!..
Any information is great!!
Thanks, Mitzzi
Here is a pic of my girl with a big fat belly and getting lots of video!!
http://www.salt-city.org/showthread.php?p=10680#post10680
I myself am experiencing a mating pair of mandarins and am going to try hatching myself even though the results might be few!..
Any information is great!!
Thanks, Mitzzi
Here is a pic of my girl with a big fat belly and getting lots of video!!
http://www.salt-city.org/showthread.php?p=10680#post10680
OldmillXxX
Premium Member
Why the move? No announcement? Just leaving us hanging? Does not sound like Matt...
OldmillXxX
Premium Member
Wow! Hopefully things can be resolved between all parties and Matt can give us an update on his own.
From a hobby standpoint, he is truly working very hard to do something very few in the world have been able to do. Breeding in the home is truly going to save and accelerate this hobby for years to come. Government regulations on wild fish are going to continue to jump exponentially. That is why I am hooked on RC for all of the good I truly believe it has offered; not just in the hobby, but the ocean's residents worldwide.
From a hobby standpoint, he is truly working very hard to do something very few in the world have been able to do. Breeding in the home is truly going to save and accelerate this hobby for years to come. Government regulations on wild fish are going to continue to jump exponentially. That is why I am hooked on RC for all of the good I truly believe it has offered; not just in the hobby, but the ocean's residents worldwide.
martinphillip03
New member
Matt, any updates or is this thread dead?
Marty
Marty
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