Group of 13 clowns dieing

[Ardeus]

Here's the story:

- I had a 300 liter aquarium with an old couple of clownfish, a Valenciana puelaris and an Ecsenius bicolor.

- I changed the tank to a 400 liter cube and I doubled the amount of rock by adding dead rock that I bought from someone who had disassembled a tank a few months ago.

- I began adding vinegar to the Kalkwasser (half the recommended dose) and I added a small dose of phosphate remover.

- I added 11 clowns (6 regular ocelaris, 4 Darwin and 1 Black ice). I also got a file fish (tomentosus)

- The new ocelaris weren't eating well, no mater what food I tried.

- A couple of days later, 1 of the Darwin clowns began with swimming bladder problems. Over the next days the other Darwin clowns had the same problem, they all had to swim upwards so they wouldn't sink.

- 3 of the regular ocelaris also began having swimming bladder problems and the Darwins were dieing. Next the Black Ice.

- The old ocelaris couple also have little apetite and are out of the anemones and don't seem that well. The female shakes her head from time to time.

- Of the 11 ocelaris group, there are only 3, 1 of them doesn't eat.

- I have been doing 60 liters water changes every other day;

- I removed the phosphate remover and stopped adding vinegar to the kalk.

- The corals, anemones and the other 3 fish seem fine, the problem is only the clownfish.

Could you please help me identify what may going wrong? I have an UV unit (36watt) but I haven't used yet.

Thanks in advance

 

[Khazmodain]

This sounds rushed without additional calendar information. Did the dead/dry rock go straight into the tank with the clowns without any cycle?

Can you post any parameters (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, Ca, alk, ph)? Is this an SPS tank with pretty high Ca/alk demands? Was the vinegar to offset the pH elevation from the kalk or for carbon dosing?

Groups of clowns won't play nicely together long-term but that doesn't seem to be your immediate issue.

 

[Ardeus]

Thks.

The rock went straight to the tank 10 days before the clowns entered. I thought that the existing live rock would be able to handle the process without having a major cycle. Maybe I was wrong?

I began adding vinegar for both the reasons you pointed, but only a small dose and I stopped after the first fish showed problems.

I have a nitrites test but I am not sure it's reliable, even rodi water shows somewhat elevated nitrites, the same as the tank water.

I don't think there's a problem with amonia/nitrites because the only problem is the clowns (the old couple and the young 11 clowns). The other fish are fine. All deaths were preceded by swimming bladder problems and lack if apetite.

In the meantime I plugged in the uv with you a very slow flow.

The tank has lps, soft corals and 12 bta's, so I only dose Kalk and alkalinity is around 6-7.

 

[Zalick]

Have you tested for ammonia? My guess would be you had a huge ammonia spike. Ammonia does not affect all fish at the same rate. You can have an ammonia problem and some fish die while others withstand the burning.

 

[Ardeus]

From what I know, amonia causes different symptoms from what I am experiencing, but I am going to get a test. Thks.

 

[Zalick]

Is the breathing rapid or increased at all?

 

[Ardeus]

I only motice the fast breathing in the final stages.

 

[Cajunreefer87]

I think that you definitely need to test ammonia.

 

[Ardeus]

I suspected that but I'm not so sure now. I am waiting for the ammonia test to arrive.

My couple of clowns showed signs of having brooklynella: white velvet on their bodies, fast breathing, lack of apetite, swimming in the same place against the flow.

It may be that the stress from high ammonia affected their immune systems, but something brought the desease to the tank.

I have the UV running 24/7.

Yesterday I did a 3 minute freshwater dip to all the clowns. It got rid of the white velvet.

They recovered well from the dip and I am hoping that a few more dips and the UV can control the disease.

 

[btb72]

Why did you add 13 clowns?

 

[Ardeus]

I had a couple for many years and I added 11.

The goal was to create a stable group with 1 couple and 11 small ones.

If regret could kill...

 

[btb72]

Did you watch the clown harem on brs and get the idea? With a group that small you will constantly have fighting bickering...

 

[Khazmodain]

If it's Brook or marine velvet you won't get rid of it with freshwater dips. Chloroquine phosphate is the treatment of choice for either of those. What are your ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates now?

 

[Ardeus]

Here are some videos I made about them:







I expected that the couple wouldn't be too aggressive with the new group because of the size difference. I was wrong at first, but they were beginning to get used to each other in just a couple of days.

In the long run, I expected the new group to have reduced aggression given the fact that there was an established couple to begin with, none of the new fish could aspire to a breeding position. I will never get to know is this would work or not.

I am waiting for the ammonia test to arrive (I live in a remote area) and the nitrites are close to 0. All the corals and other fish are seem fine.

The only fish showing problems now is the 11 year old female. Yesterday the 3 minutes freshwater dip got rid of all the white velvet on her.

The other 3 fish that also had a 3 min dip are better today and eating much better. The female didn't eat today, and although the velvet hasn't returned yet, she is on the ground the whole time. I will look up the chloroquine phosphate, thks.

The UV must be slowing down the progression of the disease in the tank.

 

[Ardeus]

My 11 year old female died.

I already got a prescription for chloroquine phosphate and I'm picking it up in a few hours.

All the remaining fish seem fine. I am tempted to wait before transfering all of them to a QT tank and treat for a month and only returning them to the tank in 2 months.

If the fish seem fine is it more advisable to wait before jumping in such a long treatment? There's 5 fish, 2 of them very difficult to catch.

 

[Ardeus]

The male seems down, but no visible signs of illness. He stays hidden from view under the anemones, but he comes out to eat.

Yesterday while the female was dieing he stayed very close, giving her a soft nudge from time to time.

I am going to give it some time, while there are no signs of any disease.

All fish seem fine except the male, who seems a little depressed but no longer has any velvet in his body and is breathing and eating normally.

 

[Zalick]

Sorry for your loss. I had a 6yr old female die and the paired male seemed very depressed for a few weeks.

 

[Ardeus]

Thks. I managed to go through my first years of saltwater with just a couple of clownfish, no other fish. She was my first saltwater fish.

I am really disappointed with myself and, yes, I miss her.

 

[Ardeus]

The 3 remaining clowns and the other 3 fish continue to seem fine. Could the UV be helping to prevent the disease from returning?

 

[Zalick]

The 3 remaining clowns and the other 3 fish continue to seem fine. Could the UV be helping to prevent the disease from returning?

Depends on the strength of the UV. I don't know how well it can eliminate a disease versus control it.