Guess the Phosphate level

What do people think is supposed to happen at levels over .3?
People think it promotes growth of nuisance algae. Honestly, I no longer subscribe to that. I no longer check my phosphate level. I have been using well water for months now, other than initial diatom bloom (gone now), I don't see any ill effects on algae bloom nor untoward coral response. I know this is going to cause an uproar. BTW, I still have chaetomorpha in my sump.
 
People think it promotes growth of nuisance algae. Honestly, I no longer subscribe to that. I no longer check my phosphate level. I have been using well water for months now, other than initial diatom bloom (gone now), I don't see any ill effects on algae bloom nor untoward coral response. I know this is going to cause an uproar. BTW, I still have chaetomorpha in my sump.

thats all fine and well to say.. but since you dont check your P04 levels they could just as easily be .003 as they are .1 , Without a known value your specific statements on how you dont see any ill effects really means nothing.
 
Dukester, does well water mean anything? DO you know the composition of well water in Florida? Phosphates for fertilizer used to be mined here.
 
thats all fine and well to say.. but since you dont check your P04 levels they could just as easily be .003 as they are .1 , Without a known value your specific statements on how you dont see any ill effects really means nothing.

Dukester, does well water mean anything? DO you know the composition of well water in Florida? Phosphates for fertilizer used to be mined here.

I think Dukester has a point there. You do utilise chaetomorpha so perhaps this is picking up a good amount of the PO4...It would actually be interesting to know what your PO4 is, and just how colourful your SPS are.
 
My po4 is around .63 with no nuisance algae although I do run an ATS and have calupera in a refugium. I have even maxed my Hanna at a flashing 2.5 po4 and still had no algae in the display. .
 
What do people think is supposed to happen at levels over .3?

You have a flare for the dramatic... you obviously know what people expect and even experience with high phosphate levels.

Is this thread ever going to materialize into a real discussion?
 
What do people think is supposed to happen at levels over .3?

I feel like this whole thread is a trick question.. Obviously everyone is aware of the article Phosphate and the Reef Aquarium and the numerous studies referenced in it... so when we know that an extended elevation of P04 to a mere .15PPM inhibited growth around 50% compared to the normal reef levels in one study and similar results were found in numerous other studies.. My question to the OP is .. do you not think that growth in your reef tank would increase if you lowered your p04 levels back down closer to what would normally be seen in the natural environment?
 
I think the point he is trying to make is who cares what po4 tests at, we dont want to make the test kits happy, we want to make corals and our eyes happy :)

but Duk. has a good point, wouldnt it be even better with lower po4 ? is your reef as good as it possibly can be ?
 
I feel like this whole thread is a trick question.. Obviously everyone is aware of the article Phosphate and the Reef Aquarium and the numerous studies referenced in it... so when we know that an extended elevation of P04 to a mere .15PPM inhibited growth around 50% compared to the normal reef levels in one study and similar results were found in numerous other studies.. My question to the OP is .. do you not think that growth in your reef tank would increase if you lowered your p04 levels back down closer to what would normally be seen in the natural environment?


I agree.

Where are the growth pics? This thread indicates great colors with a (possibly) higher than generally accepted P04 levels, but doesn't show progression of growth in these corals.

I'd like to see how long it took and how much growth over time with pics.
 
I have an issue....his join date is earlier than anyone else who is posting in this thread....I feel like I am forced to believe him :fun4:

Anyone else have this issue....lol, if I get advice from someone who has only been a member since 2011, I kind of take it with a grain of salt, but if someone from 2001 is saying something, then I better believe it!

Just a weird issue I have...I know join date is not proxy for years of experience, but can't help but always look....

I'm with Sahin, lets see some top down pics, perhaps a video? :dance:
 
I agree.

Where are the growth pics? This thread indicates great colors with a (possibly) higher than generally accepted P04 levels, but doesn't show progression of growth in these corals.

I'd like to see how long it took and how much growth over time with pics.

Look here...
http://packedhead.net/2011/home-tank-over-time/

I have an issue....his join date is earlier than anyone else who is posting in this thread....I feel like I am forced to believe him :fun4:

Anyone else have this issue....lol, if I get advice from someone who has only been a member since 2011, I kind of take it with a grain of salt, but if someone from 2001 is saying something, then I better believe it!

Just a weird issue I have...I know join date is not proxy for years of experience, but can't help but always look....

I'm with Sahin, lets see some top down pics, perhaps a video? :dance:

I believe he has been in this hobby for about 25+ years and was one the many I paid attention to when I began this hobby. Unfortunately most that are still in the hobby got tired of people who didn't understand telling them their tank would suffer because of their methods and they don't bother trying to educate people any longer. This is a sad thing because the most experienced people who have the most to offer are put off by the attitudes of those who need their experience the most.

I am surprised to see people scratching their heads here, this isn't new and there are plenty of examples of higher nutrient tanks thriving.

Big E's tank...po4 was tested at about .34-.37 and there is no question about the health, growth and color of his Acro's.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2197142


I don't want to detract from this thread but remember corals are highly adaptive creatures, in spite of what the books have led you to believe. The simple proof of that is the variability in everyone's tank and methods and the successes with each method. There is no cut and dried formula for success. I have seen more pale and sickly corals in the past few years then I ever did when I began keeping SPS.
 
Look here...
http://packedhead.net/2011/home-tank-over-time/



I believe he has been in this hobby for about 25+ years and was one the many I paid attention to when I began this hobby. Unfortunately most that are still in the hobby got tired of people who didn't understand telling them their tank would suffer because of their methods and they don't bother trying to educate people any longer. This is a sad thing because the most experienced people who have the most to offer are put off by the attitudes of those who need their experience the most.

I am surprised to see people scratching their heads here, this isn't new and there are plenty of examples of higher nutrient tanks thriving.

Big E's tank...po4 was tested at about .34-.37 and there is no question about the health, growth and color of his Acro's.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2197142


I don't want to detract from this thread but remember corals are highly adaptive creatures, in spite of what the books have led you to believe. The simple proof of that is the variability in everyone's tank and methods and the successes with each method. There is no cut and dried formula for success. I have seen more pale and sickly corals in the past few years then I ever did when I began keeping SPS.

Thanks, sirreal. No need for ellipsis. The link I originally clicked was just to the home page. My apologies.

I appreciate it and I'm not doubting his reef keeping or knowledge.

Do those bi-annual FTS indicated P04 over the years? Or are there p04 measurements that coincide with said FTS?
 
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I'd be very interested in knowing how the coloration changed since they hypothesize the increased growth due to increased zooxanthellae.
 
I think the point he is trying to make is who cares what po4 tests at, we dont want to make the test kits happy, we want to make corals and our eyes happy :)

That is absolutely one of the points I like to make. The questionable reliability of po4 testing, especially at levels reefers have been striving for in the last few years, is another.

but Duk. has a good point, wouldnt it be even better with lower po4 ? is your reef as good as it possibly can be ?

It wasn't any different when the po4 was lower. I got tired of spending time and money chasing the numbers and decided to let it go and see what happened. Not much. :D I may try to reduce the po4 to see what happens, of course, how to quantify what happens is a whole nutty kettle of fish. I do go through and chop everything back every 6 months or so. Almost time for another round. I am also not sure how much I care about growth speed. If it ends up being a little slower, it just means less work for me.

It may be that there is something weird going on in my home tank, and I am certainly not saying people should change whatever they are doing.

Sorry if I jumped the gun here - perhaps I should have waited till the article is out. I just thought this might be fun. Sorry if people don't like it.

The last PO4 test I believe was 1.24, tested with the Hach ascorbic acid molybdate method.
 
Interesting read, Thales. It is worth noting the weakened skeletal structure at higher P04.

Know of any follow up studies including various species?

Not yet. I think the weakened skeletal structure might be over blown and we see the same effect from increased growth without the presence of high po4.
 
well it is fine. but you arent really advocating the best practice to keep these animals. ...

as you mentioned "I am also not sure how much I care about growth speed. If it ends up being a little slower, it just means less work for me. "
which is totally fine, but how about me who rathers work on my reef than watch TV ? it is wrong for me to lower my po4, get more growth, and keep my animals happier ? [or rather lock myself in the fish room and change water then to argue with ze GF :D haha]

I completely agree with your method though. alot less work, and more stable then my reef :)

but good point and good thread, I personally enjoyed it. I dislike how ppl have Issues iwth their system, come on the net, post the values from API test kit, and ppl respond with po4 is high, or no3 is high ... your tank and this thread shows that keeping SPS relatively happy and colorfull, is not about chasing numbers. its about the stability of the system, and perhaps other points which you are going to share with us and teach us about :)
 
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