Hammer separating from skeleton
- Thread starter Dag
- Start date
Anthony Calfo
New member
numerous possibilities here:
attrition is rather common and easily overlooked. Lack of feeding (3-5 times weekly with minced meaty foods 1/4" or smaller) or the wrong type of feeding (feeding chunks of flesh too large that get regurguitated after the lighs go out)
stress like salinity shock (dumping in a big qty of FW like neglected evap top off) or temperature or light shock (new lamps added without acclimation... or large water change or carbon change after weeks without which increases water clarity under old lamps and causes polyp bailout)
Hmmm... the list goes on
Do any of these seem likely? Else, do share more info about your habits and husbandry that I may troubleshoot.
with kind regards,
Anthony
attrition is rather common and easily overlooked. Lack of feeding (3-5 times weekly with minced meaty foods 1/4" or smaller) or the wrong type of feeding (feeding chunks of flesh too large that get regurguitated after the lighs go out)
stress like salinity shock (dumping in a big qty of FW like neglected evap top off) or temperature or light shock (new lamps added without acclimation... or large water change or carbon change after weeks without which increases water clarity under old lamps and causes polyp bailout)
Hmmm... the list goes on
Do any of these seem likely? Else, do share more info about your habits and husbandry that I may troubleshoot.
with kind regards,
Anthony
Dag
Premium Member
Minced meaty foods?
Does finely ground shrimp, mysis shrimp, and formula one cubes qualify? If so, it's not attrition.
No other identifiable stress or changes in water quality.
This seems to be an ongoing pattern of nonsurvival about which I have been complaining for months. There's something wrong with my system, although I had thought I had set it up pretty good.
Here are the specifications (again):
Tank Specifications
- 200 gallon display (73ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ÂL x 24ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ÂW x 27ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ÂH)
- Approximately 180 lbs live rock added on 6/25/03 (plus base rock in the main tank and another 40lbs of rock in the sump and refugium)
- 3 ReefOptix III Metal Halide Pendants ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ 250W each with 10,000 K bulb
- 2 VHO Actinic bulbs hung 3ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ from water
-Circulation loop through sump ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ Iwaki 100 RLT ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ alternate flow between pipes with 3-way motorized valve on each side of center overflow box
- Closed loop with GRI 520 alternate flow between pipes with 3-way motorized valve on each side of tank
- 45 gallon sump
- CS-12-1 Euroreef skimmer
- 40 gallon refugium
- Temp 79.2 ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ 80
- PH 8.05 ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ 8.2
- Salinity is approx. 1.025
- Calcium approximately 400 (Korallin C-4002 calcium reactor and drip kalkwasser)
- Dkh 9 - 11
- DI/RO water
-No ammonia
- Nitrites - Approx .1 ppm or less
- Nitrates ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ Approx. 3 ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“5 ppm or less
Livestock
9 Fish
Corals still alive: a bubble, ricordeas, encrusting gorgonian, torch corals (doing poorly), lots of halimeda, maroon mushrooms, zoos (only some have survived), green/brown pulsing xenia, lemnalia, daisy polyps, tree coral and colt coral, yellow polyps (almost gone).
Other invertebrate still alive: two rose anemones, two cleaner shrimp, fan worm and a clam, two yellow cucumbers, various snails.
Corals that have been lost: three different open brains, two elegance corals, two stylophora, Ã"šÃ‚½ dozen SPS frags, blastomussa, pom pom xenia, pachysera, hammer coral, pagoda coral, plate coral, orange montipora capricornis.
Other casualties: two clams, two fan worms, bristle star, tiger tail cucumbers, fighting conch.
Miscellaneous
Coralline algae grows well
Halimeda grows well
5ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ DSB in main tank ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ oolitic sand
6ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ DSB in refugium ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ oolitic sand
Caulerpa in refugium and Chaetomorpha in overflow box
Does finely ground shrimp, mysis shrimp, and formula one cubes qualify? If so, it's not attrition.
No other identifiable stress or changes in water quality.
This seems to be an ongoing pattern of nonsurvival about which I have been complaining for months. There's something wrong with my system, although I had thought I had set it up pretty good.
Here are the specifications (again):
Tank Specifications
- 200 gallon display (73ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ÂL x 24ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ÂW x 27ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ÂH)
- Approximately 180 lbs live rock added on 6/25/03 (plus base rock in the main tank and another 40lbs of rock in the sump and refugium)
- 3 ReefOptix III Metal Halide Pendants ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ 250W each with 10,000 K bulb
- 2 VHO Actinic bulbs hung 3ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ from water
-Circulation loop through sump ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ Iwaki 100 RLT ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ alternate flow between pipes with 3-way motorized valve on each side of center overflow box
- Closed loop with GRI 520 alternate flow between pipes with 3-way motorized valve on each side of tank
- 45 gallon sump
- CS-12-1 Euroreef skimmer
- 40 gallon refugium
- Temp 79.2 ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ 80
- PH 8.05 ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ 8.2
- Salinity is approx. 1.025
- Calcium approximately 400 (Korallin C-4002 calcium reactor and drip kalkwasser)
- Dkh 9 - 11
- DI/RO water
-No ammonia
- Nitrites - Approx .1 ppm or less
- Nitrates ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ Approx. 3 ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“5 ppm or less
Livestock
9 Fish
Corals still alive: a bubble, ricordeas, encrusting gorgonian, torch corals (doing poorly), lots of halimeda, maroon mushrooms, zoos (only some have survived), green/brown pulsing xenia, lemnalia, daisy polyps, tree coral and colt coral, yellow polyps (almost gone).
Other invertebrate still alive: two rose anemones, two cleaner shrimp, fan worm and a clam, two yellow cucumbers, various snails.
Corals that have been lost: three different open brains, two elegance corals, two stylophora, Ã"šÃ‚½ dozen SPS frags, blastomussa, pom pom xenia, pachysera, hammer coral, pagoda coral, plate coral, orange montipora capricornis.
Other casualties: two clams, two fan worms, bristle star, tiger tail cucumbers, fighting conch.
Miscellaneous
Coralline algae grows well
Halimeda grows well
5ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ DSB in main tank ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ oolitic sand
6ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ DSB in refugium ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ oolitic sand
Caulerpa in refugium and Chaetomorpha in overflow box
Anthony Calfo
New member
Hmmm... I'm really not sure what more I can say/help.
Your hardware and set up are quite good overall.
The only thing that jumps out at me is your pH. Its approaching scary low (I'm hoping the 8.0 reading was deep/dark night... else you pH is dropping even lower then - yikes!). Open a window in the room with this tank when the weather is warmer to see if the pH jumps higher indicating (well-insulated house) an accumulation of CO2
Do target a safe range of 8.3-8.6 instead.
Still... this would not cause the problems you've had. Just a matter that needs tweaking.
Have you had any local advanced aquarists or professionals (service professionals) look at your tank? If not, do consider tapping the local or regional aquarium society to see about getting another pair of eyes to check out your system in person. Hard to tell without me seeing/smelling the system
kindly,
Anthony
Your hardware and set up are quite good overall.
The only thing that jumps out at me is your pH. Its approaching scary low (I'm hoping the 8.0 reading was deep/dark night... else you pH is dropping even lower then - yikes!). Open a window in the room with this tank when the weather is warmer to see if the pH jumps higher indicating (well-insulated house) an accumulation of CO2
Do target a safe range of 8.3-8.6 instead.
Still... this would not cause the problems you've had. Just a matter that needs tweaking.
Have you had any local advanced aquarists or professionals (service professionals) look at your tank? If not, do consider tapping the local or regional aquarium society to see about getting another pair of eyes to check out your system in person. Hard to tell without me seeing/smelling the system
kindly,
Anthony
Dag
Premium Member
I have trouble keeping the PH up, I assume because of the calcium reactor.
The problem with local service professionals, in my experience, is that they tend to be inflexible if your setup differs from what they're used to installing. For example, none of the five or so local installers that I spoke to use a DSB (except that one would favor it in the refugium, not the main tank). This leads to reactions like, Oh, your problem is the DSB.
The problem with local service professionals, in my experience, is that they tend to be inflexible if your setup differs from what they're used to installing. For example, none of the five or so local installers that I spoke to use a DSB (except that one would favor it in the refugium, not the main tank). This leads to reactions like, Oh, your problem is the DSB.
Anthony Calfo
New member
wow... they are so narrow minded!
Hmmm... do seek some fellow aquarists online then that are local. And if there is not a good club in your region, do consider starting one
Kindly,
Anthony
Hmmm... do seek some fellow aquarists online then that are local. And if there is not a good club in your region, do consider starting one
Kindly,
Anthony
Anthony Calfo
New member
Dag... do reconsider (the tank break down and your assessment of the locals). There is so much talent in the Chicago area. And you have several of the nations largest/best aquarium clubs in your region.
Are you a member of any of the local aquarium societies? They are truly the best place to get accurate and current information/advise.
Anthony
Are you a member of any of the local aquarium societies? They are truly the best place to get accurate and current information/advise.
Anthony
Dag
Premium Member
Anthony, I ran across this observation regarding Halimeda:
"..Halimeda spp. are very robust and not easily harmed by algae eating animals - only a few species of fish feed on them. This is due to the plant excreting toxic metabolites Halimedatrial and Halimedatetraacetat. Large patches of Halimeda (and also most
other algaes) in our aquariums may cause a problem due to these toxins and it may be necessary to occasionally use carbon to keep their levels down."...
I have large patches of halimeda (and I use carbon). Do you think this could be the culprit?
"..Halimeda spp. are very robust and not easily harmed by algae eating animals - only a few species of fish feed on them. This is due to the plant excreting toxic metabolites Halimedatrial and Halimedatetraacetat. Large patches of Halimeda (and also most
other algaes) in our aquariums may cause a problem due to these toxins and it may be necessary to occasionally use carbon to keep their levels down."...
I have large patches of halimeda (and I use carbon). Do you think this could be the culprit?
Anthony Calfo
New member
It may be contributory... but not necessarily causitive. Such things are pale in the light of the reality of most of our unnatural (and crowded) garden reef tanks. Species selection (poor by most of us mixing LPS, SPS, softies, polyps, etc all together) is far worse in my opinion and simply catches up to one in time.
Anthony
Anthony
Dag
Premium Member
In addition to talking to several LFS (and having them test my water) and local maintenance/installation companies, here's the results of my appeal to the local aquarium club and reefers: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=335328
I got two votes for tank break down. What do you think?
Anthony Calfo
New member
I canot say/agree without actually seeing your tanks condition... but suspect a complete breakdown is not necessary (rare). Several large water changes with quality sea salt like Tropic Marin or Instant Ocean will do the trick if that is the problem at all (vs . atrittion, etc)
Anthony
Anthony
Anthony Calfo
New member
I think you are truly missing my point here, Dag. I am not implying that your sea salt brand is the problem... just a reminder for you to use a reputable (time-tested) salt if you intend to (ever) do a tank break-down or larger water changes.
Your coral's symptom is so general and can be caused by so many things that a clear answer solution is not possible from friends like us over the Internet and without having seen your tank. Its unrealistic.
wishing you the best of luck just the same.
And of passing mention (since you mention "growth" now on the rocks, etc) is a boring green alage that can afflict stony corals. There are pics of it in Julian's Algae book and my Reef Invetebrate book.
Anthony
Your coral's symptom is so general and can be caused by so many things that a clear answer solution is not possible from friends like us over the Internet and without having seen your tank. Its unrealistic.
wishing you the best of luck just the same.
And of passing mention (since you mention "growth" now on the rocks, etc) is a boring green alage that can afflict stony corals. There are pics of it in Julian's Algae book and my Reef Invetebrate book.
Anthony
Anthony Calfo
New member
Nope
Dag
Premium Member
Phospates were checked using the Hach kit. Levels were minimal but I added Phosban anyway.
Polyfilters were added and it turned brown after a few days. I replaced it and am on my second one. (Can these be cleaned and reused?)
I have a pygmy (or cherub) angel and a potter's angel, neither of which are harassing my corals.
Polyfilters were added and it turned brown after a few days. I replaced it and am on my second one. (Can these be cleaned and reused?)
I have a pygmy (or cherub) angel and a potter's angel, neither of which are harassing my corals.
