Has diving changed your views on reef-keeping? Vice versa?

[rssjsb]

I started diving last year and it has been eye-opening. Seeing these critters in their natural surroundings has made me think about my husbandry and choices differently. My hobby has also affected my diving. Here are two examples. I'd like to hear from others on this subject.

1. Effect on my reef-keeping choices. Specifically, I am more interested now in keeping fish that are small and stick close to the reef in the wild and am far less likely to try fish that get bigger and are open-water swimmers. I'm not judging anyone, it's just that bigger tangs and triggers just look so cramped in aquariums to me now. We saw several huge titan triggers in Australia and can't imagine putting one of them in a tank.

I'm also far more interested in soft corals and sponges than I was before.

2. Effect on my diving habits/experiences. This may be a more sensitive question - do you ever mention your aquarium-keeping to other divers. I don't because who needs any potential tension when you're diving? I wil say that my experiences keeping marine aquariums seems to have made me a much more informed diver than some people I've met who have been diving for years. To the point that the people running the dive operations have asked me if I'm a marine biologist or something. I think my diving experience has been seriously enriched by my familiarity with fish and inverts that I've learned about through the hobby.

How about you?

 

[ScooterTDI]

#1
I've been thinking about this a lot lately. I started diving a couple years ago and it has significantly affected my views on reefkeeping. Like you, I have decided that I am not going to keep any fish that are not site-attached in the wild. I don't mind keeping fish like clownfish, blennies and gobies because they are small and generally don't roam over large distances in the wild. Most other fish tend move around a lot and I would no longer feel comfortable confining them to an aquarium. For the most part, I also strongly favor fish that have been captive bred.

I've also decided that I will only include frags that have been propagated in captivity. Many LFS buy wild colonies, chop them up to make frags, so I only buy from reputable coral farmers like ORA or fellow reefers.

#2
I made a mistake on a recent dive trip in which I mentioned to some fellow divers that I used to breed and raise seahorses. I always thought of that as a really great endeavor because captive propagation prevented seahorses from being taken from the wild to satisfy the demand in the aquarium trade. My fellow divers did not see it that way. They told me that aquariums were a death sentence for all fish and insinuated that I should be ashamed for supporting the aquarium industry.

I think the knowledge on fish ID and fish behavoir I've gained from reefing make diving more enjoyable that it would be otherwise. Most divers seem to just go sight-seeing, but divers that are very knowledgable about fish biology and behavoir seem to get more out of the diving experience because they tend to pay more attention to many of the more subtle aspects of reef life.

Scott

 

[AFamilyofDivers]

I think it has changed my view of the ocean and keeping a saltwater tank. I have only been diving a few years, but my view is enhanced about the preciousness of the ocean environment and only after I started diving, did I have such a strong desire to own a tank. My husband was in the hobby in the late 80's and I remember how beautiful the photos of his tanks were and how he enjoyed taking care of these animals.

We live in the desert, and I think the desire to own a tank is me truly missing the ocean. A little selfish? Perhaps; however, we have spared no expense with setting up our 180 gal which has very few and small raised fish and coral. Our decision to create an ecosystem in our home came with the vow to provide everything that our fish and corals could possibly need to survive and thrive while we have been given the opportunity to care for them.

We've not run into divers who have had adverse reactions to the saltwater aquarium hobby, yet. I assume somewhere down the road we will, and will address them as we encounter. My guess is they only see and hear what is in the LFS, and because they are in the hobby not know that there are plenty of resources for tank raised and propagated in captivity species that do not take away from the reefs we all love to visit. Certainly a teachable moment for those who may only have a "it's all taken from the ocean" perspective.

Just my two cents. Linda

#1
I've been thinking about this a lot lately. I started diving a couple years ago and it has significantly affected my views on reefkeeping. Like you, I have decided that I am not going to keep any fish that are not site-attached in the wild. I don't mind keeping fish like clownfish, blennies and gobies because they are small and generally don't roam over large distances in the wild. Most other fish tend move around a lot and I would no longer feel comfortable confining them to an aquarium. For the most part, I also strongly favor fish that have been captive bred.

I've also decided that I will only include frags that have been propagated in captivity. Many LFS buy wild colonies, chop them up to make frags, so I only buy from reputable coral farmers like ORA or fellow reefers.

#2
I made a mistake on a recent dive trip in which I mentioned to some fellow divers that I used to breed and raise seahorses. I always thought of that as a really great endeavor because captive propagation prevented seahorses from being taken from the wild to satisfy the demand in the aquarium trade. My fellow divers did not see it that way. They told me that aquariums were a death sentence for all fish and insinuated that I should be ashamed for supporting the aquarium industry.

I think the knowledge on fish ID and fish behavoir I've gained from reefing make diving more enjoyable that it would be otherwise. Most divers seem to just go sight-seeing, but divers that are very knowledgable about fish biology and behavoir seem to get more out of the diving experience because they tend to pay more attention to many of the more subtle aspects of reef life.

Scott

 

[r-balljunkie]

I started my first saltwater aquarium back in 1992, with an underground filter and NO shop lights. No one thought of keeping live corals back then, just the bleached skeletons for decoration. I can't believe I used to pay $50 bux for an ornamental dried up coral!!

For the most part, I've continually had a tank since then (a couple years break in college)

I've been out in the Marshall Islands for the last two years and dive every weekend without fail, sometimes during the middle of the week <night dives>. I have no choice but to go and get my own fish, coral, sand, live rock, water.....you name it. There's no such thing as next day air out here since we are so remote.

Diving has greatly affected how I look at this hobby. Some of these thoughts I keep to myself and some I share.

In my brain, I like to paint the hobby in a negative light due to all the wild collecting of corals that goes on in other places<Indonesia for one>, coupled with the capture and retail of fish.

In other ways I look at the hobby as being positive thru creating more sustainable methods like aquaculturing. This innovation provides jobs to local economies of island countries.

Here's my observations from diving and keeping an aquarium

FISH- There's a certain biomass a species has on the reef. This is evident when you see schools of newer born fish by the thousands after a spawning. Ive seen it seasonally change from species to species. Threadfin cardinals are in abundance right now, a few months ago, I was tripping over juvenile tangs (Ctenochaetus striatus). Many of these fish are relegated to being a meal in the food chain eventually; very few will live out the full extent of their natural lives, as its part of the normal life cycle. Removing certain percentage of ornamental fish doesn't harm or misbalance the ecosystem, IMO (I'm not a marine biologist, just an opinion). Removing a large percentage is never good, however I think collecting can be sustainable, as long as the greed factor is down that is associated with the current distribution means.

I think some fish are underpriced. Its very dangerous to collect some of these species at depths. The risk factor isnt included in the price tag, and lives are put in danger for those who collect without proper training(unknowing and often exploited locals), and end up bent and dead.

CORALS- I also don't think certain wild coral colonies should be sold in the hobby. They should be left in situ. I like the promotion of propagating corals, especially if they originate from local islanders to help with their economies. With some investment in infrastructure and streamlining of the distribution channels, this could be a viable "˜win win' for everyone. I'm sure someone will chime in and say all corals start off in the wild, but thru trial and error, I've learned some just are not suitable for an aquarium.

99% of the average hobbyist miss out on some great species of corals that would be easily propogated, and don't make it into retail stream, whereas these upstream businesses steadily send the same stock to your LFS.

I have some corals that I've never seen in the hobby, and I've cruised my share of LFS's.

INDUSTRY- Again and again, you see local fish stores still stocking the same orange sponges that are doomed, the same condy's that are doomed, the same shark eggs that are doomed...... some of this stuff should just be left on the reef . I think there is so much room for improvement in the way business is done, retail store all the way back to the source. I'm not sure these changes can be consumer driven, as the same batch of people buy the same crap that's not going to live year after year because it's in there price range, and they got $100 bux burning a hole in their pockets.

Just my .02 cents. I'm going to enjoy both while I can.

 

[sunfishh]

After visiting Hawaii I learned most corals are brown. Not green or purple but green. Looking at most reeftanks you would never know this. In addition I was surprised that convict tangs were so abundant and yellow tangs were much less abundant.

 

[Balletomane]

The influence for me is the inverse. Reef keeping has had more of an impact on my diving experiences. I take a LOT more time to notice the microfauna than before. My first experiences were all about the big critters and large coral formations. I used to raise orchids. My first trip to the tropics introduced me to the smaller genera/species. Some of the greatest beauties come in small packages.

It sounds as if I should count myself lucky that I haven't encountered any flack from dive group members regarding this hobby. If anything, they often seek me out to identify invertebrates they have photographed.

 

[billdogg]

I started working at a LFS about 1988 part time. I got certified in 1990. I think both enrich the other. It is a rare day when I cannot ID something from the Carribean, and I'm usually pretty close on Indo-Pacific creatures. Yes, there are those who think all Aquarists should be shot on site. There are also those who think all divers should be banned forever from the ocean. Both are wrong.

I have spent many dives directly under the dive boat after all the other divers have sped off into the blue with my camera looking for, and finding, some very cool little critters, only to surface to hear the rest of the divers complaining because there was nothing to see. When I start naming all the things I have found, they invariably ask where. I point straight down. Most are doubtful until they see the pics for themselves. It is funny on the next dive to see half of them under the boat with me using their eyes, not their fins to see what there is to see.

My reef tank looks as much like a reef as I can make it. No big fish (it's a 60 cube so I couldn't if I wanted to anyway), only a few little reef fish and a rainbow of corals.

 

[mhosts]

After diving with atlantic blue tangs, and the likes and realizing that they were doing 50 foot figure 8 circles around me for fun... I realized the tang police on this forum is dead wrong... If you're going to criticize someone for keeping a tang in a 60-100 gallon tank, a 200-300 gallon tank isn't any better considering the space and speed they are used to in the wild.

As for corals, it makes me sad knowing how fragile they are, yet seeing inexperienced divers flap their fins all over them Some may say when the oceans are depleted due to our stupidity, the average reef aquarium will be the only place for certain extinct coral species.

That being said, the typical aquarium aqua scape is nothing like the wild. And if you really want to be inspired, that's where every reef keeper should go to learn how a tank should really look!

 

[sunfishh]

The influence for me is the inverse. Reef keeping has had more of an impact on my diving experiences. I take a LOT more time to notice the microfauna than before. My first experiences were all about the big critters and large coral formations. I used to raise orchids. My first trip to the tropics introduced me to the smaller genera/species. Some of the greatest beauties come in small packages.

This is really nicely said.

 

[rssjsb]

I started working at a LFS about 1988 part time. I got certified in 1990. I think both enrich the other. It is a rare day when I cannot ID something from the Carribean, and I'm usually pretty close on Indo-Pacific creatures. Yes, there are those who think all Aquarists should be shot on site. There are also those who think all divers should be banned forever from the ocean. Both are wrong.

I have spent many dives directly under the dive boat after all the other divers have sped off into the blue with my camera looking for, and finding, some very cool little critters, only to surface to hear the rest of the divers complaining because there was nothing to see. When I start naming all the things I have found, they invariably ask where. I point straight down. Most are doubtful until they see the pics for themselves. It is funny on the next dive to see half of them under the boat with me using their eyes, not their fins to see what there is to see.

We're still rank beginners, but this is how I see myself progressing as a diver. When we were in Australia, the guide kept having to tear me away from the walls where I was just hovering, staring at the feather stars and all the other little critters. I think she thought I was narced or something. Understanding how it all fits together makes it really easier to SEE what's going on. Reefkeeping gave me that by helping me understand (and sparking my interest in) systems.

I think drift diving could be enjoyable, but it seems like looking at the reef out of a car window. It's the same thing that makes me a "bad" hiker. I would rather sit on a log and wait for the woods to ignore me so I can really see. So once I have more experience and control, I look forward to covering less territory but getting more out of it.

Thanks for all the responses, keep 'em coming.

 

[rssjsb]

After visiting Hawaii I learned most corals are brown. Not green or purple but green. Looking at most reeftanks you would never know this. In addition I was surprised that convict tangs were so abundant and yellow tangs were much less abundant.

Where did you dive in Hawaii? We just got back from a dive trip to Kailua-Kona. There aren't a lot of branching corals, and no softies, but there was a lot of color - it was just mostly yellow. Different types of porites dominate. Australia had a lot more diversity, obviously. It was what you picture when you think about the reef. Almost too much color to take in.

 

[Rockster2599]

1. Effect on my reef-keeping choices. Specifically, I am more interested now in keeping fish that are small and stick close to the reef in the wild and am far less likely to try fish that get bigger and are open-water swimmers. I'm not judging anyone, it's just that bigger tangs and triggers just look so cramped in aquariums to me now. We saw several huge titan triggers in Australia and can't imagine putting one of them in a tank.

Bingo! As a diver and snorkeller I was always drawn to the smaller things, while my buddy were chasing sharks and turtles I was watching pipefish courting in the coral rubble. I think thats a really good point, after seeing large immaculate wandering species (tangs, triggers, angels etc) swimming large distances, the same species in the LFS have always looked pale in comparison. Since that point I have always tried to keep my stock choices to ones that have a particular small territory or patch on the reef.

 

[ackee]

No.

No.

 

[rssjsb]

Bingo! As a diver and snorkeller I was always drawn to the smaller things, while my buddy were chasing sharks and turtles I was watching pipefish courting in the coral rubble. I think thats a really good point, after seeing large immaculate wandering species (tangs, triggers, angels etc) swimming large distances, the same species in the LFS have always looked pale in comparison. Since that point I have always tried to keep my stock choices to ones that have a particular small territory or patch on the reef.

I like seeing sharks and turtles, but I'm with you. Seeing a pipefish or frogfish is much more exciting to me.

 

[sunfishh]

rssjsb I have scuba dove while vistiting both Maui and Oahu. My understanding is Kona is basically the best place in Hawaii to dive so I am not surprised that it was very nice.

 

[rssjsb]

rssjsb I have scuba dove while vistiting both Maui and Oahu. My understanding is Kona is basically the best place in Hawaii to dive so I am not surprised that it was very nice.

Interesting.

 

[Saltliquid]

Here have a look at what we do here in Auz as a club that collects for our aquariums.

http://southeastqueenslandm.aforumfree.com/

 

[rssjsb]

Thanks liquidg. I've taken a quick spin and will delve in deeper.

A question for you - what is the attitude in Australia about reefkeeping? In general and among divers?

 

[Saltliquid]

Thanks liquidg. I've taken a quick spin and will delve in deeper.

A question for you - what is the attitude in Australia about reefkeeping? In general and among divers?

Now that's an interesting question!

Sorry if I rave on to much and I mean that, this is a sore point to me.

My family is of quite a few generations in Auz,so I will say that first just in case you think I am not an auzy.

The Auz mentality on average is (she'll be right) and this allows for the minority groups to begin taking over.

You then include political correctness and it perpetuates the problems here even more and we loose our common sense approach to most issues that were important!

With most divers here,they are part of the short term turn over and that's that.

The old school divers that except that there are many forms of diving are out numbered enormously and keep to them selves, I don't!

The short term divers have no idea of the oceans functions and subsequent marine eco systems that run it and get sucked in by no nothing (want to be's) and are easily convinced of things they know nothing about and follow along like sheep supporting at times, pure stupidity.

There had to be oceanic protections put in place for important areas. but just recently there was a major section of the barrier reef included in the marine park, on the surface that sounds great!

There are ways other countries can go before the world's court and get access to these as (under used areas)
This may actually happen.

So the average diver here,not all luckily,have near no idea that each time there is a child anywhere beyond replacing them selves, start their car, flush their toilet or buy anything at all, they are contributing to killing the barrier reef and any other reefs near to the equator.
So the government to grab the greens vote and appease idiotic thinking makes it seem as if users of the ocean are the only problem.

The sites on the Internet here are virtually run by shops or hypocrites; so private collecting is frowned upon from sheep herding and monetary controls initiated by the net.

Sorry mate, the ocean has been part of my life for over 40 years, scuba,free diving, surfing and reefing for 32 years.
I am very passionate about the ocean, but I understand it and what is going on is very sad.

Oh, reef keeping here is controlled mostly by the shops.

Good luck with the sport hobby combo, it's a huge and wonderful learning curb to combine both.