have amnonia in my substrate , new setup

[Oceanutz]

is there anything i can do to get rid of the high ammonia levels , without changing my substrate , , cleaning with chemicals or protein skimmer on for a time period , I'm using lava rocks in a canister filter and also using de nitrate by seachem. chloride has brought levels down ,but when chloride was gone ,levels went back up . nothing is in tank right now . no rock , only substrate .

 

[tjm9331]

how long has the tank been up and running?

What size is the tank?

What are your actual ammonia levels according to your test kit?

what is the substrate? sand? gravel? crushed coral?

What are you using for a water source? tap? RO/DI?

I'm assuming the tank hasn't been up very long since you don't have any rock in it yet unless you won't be adding rock to the tank...

Have you added anything to the tank to start the cycle like a piece of shrimp or actual ammonia?

we need these questions answered before we can start helping you.

 

[mossimo654]

How new is your setup? If you've just placed substrate in ammonia is generally a good thing, it means your tank can cycle. Did you use live sand? If so could be natural die off from micro organisms What are your perameters (nitrite, ammonia, nitrate,sg temp)? If your ammonia isn't too high it might be worth getting some live rock to increase your bacteria population and get your bio filter started. I had luck with seachem stability as well.

If you get cured live rock from an lfs you can use a little bit and then get a bunch more dry rock (much cheaper) to cycle. After placing it where you like, wait as long as it takes to ge your ammonia and nitrites down to 0, then water change and you can add a cleanup crew

 

[mcgyvr]

Sounds like someone needs to do a bit of learning before moving on..

please read the informational stickies at the top of the newbie forum..

READ THIS...
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1031074


Specifically the parts about how/why/what to cycling a tank..
Its totally normal to have elevated ammonia levels during the first few days/week of a new tank.. It should be converted to nitrites and then nitrites turn to nitrates..
You should add the rock to give the bacteria more surface area to colonize on.. Sand is good but plenty of porous rock is even better..

Typically cycling can take 4 weeks and then the tank needs to "mature" which can take a few months to a year before its really "stable"..

Please read..learn... Its been covered to death around here..
Learning before you react will save you hundreds/thousands of dollars in mistakes/death,etc...

 

[gone fishin]

Why do you have lava rock in a canister filter?

 

[Oceanutz]

tank is only up for a week , haven't hooked up sump yet , running 2 hang on filters and a canister filter , its 90 gal with a mix of crushed coral and dredged shells , I added dead rock today looks good , i'm taking this slow , the main reason was my cat had used the tank as a cat box , so , before i started , i disinfected everything with bleach and soaked my substrate in bleach , then in prime , ammonia levels have dropped and my nitrite is light blue , i have 1 chromie in there now , its doing good , has a lot of tank to swim around .I added trace elements , but ive also put stable in , coz i used some tap to top off , but since i wasnt putting fish in for awhile , i knew it would be ok .

 

[CStrickland]

You can't have fish in a tank with any ammonia. Whether the ammonia is from the cat pee or the dead rock or the chromis, it's still very toxic for the fish. It burns their gills when they breathe the water. I'm stumped as to what the best way to fix that situation is though, since you don't say how high the ammonia actually is and I have no idea how long it might continue to be released from the pee soaked substrate.

Honestly I would return the fish, throw out the substrate, read the sticky that mcgyver linked up-thread and start over. I don't want to discourage you but I think you've gotten off on such a wrong start that it really would be easier to start fresh than it would be to fix this. Just a few things that jump out from your posts, not to beat you up but to illustrate what would be involved in fixing the tank:
- Crushed coral is not the easiest substrate for a a saltwater tank, it needs special maintenance to keep from escalating nutrients. Idk what dredged shells are but I doubt they will help that situation
- Trace elements are wholly unnecessary at this stage
- Stability is a bacteria culture, not a water conditioner. It did nothing to render the tap water safe
- lava rocks in a canister filter is not a great idea
- canister filters often don't really do salt water tanks any good
- the stuff you are saying in the first post about "chloride" fixing levels doesn't make any sense
- hob filters are for freshwater tanks

I don't know if your getting bad advice from someone or just getting a little too creative trying to avoid replacing the pee substrate, but you are not setting yourself up for a good experience with the hobby or a happy life for your pets. Again, I hope that's not too harsh there is just really a lot of red flags here. Slowing down and reading at least the really basic parts of the linked thread where it describes setting up and cycling a tank will save you trouble and a lot of money that you are spending on unnecessary equipment and chemicals. Good luck

 

[Oceanutz]

Look ,I know all this , obviously , u only read what u wanted to read. I have 2 other tanks and the canister filter is only temp along with the 2 hang over filters. My ammonia levels are only 1. And my sump with refugium, is getting set up either today or tomorrow. The bleach worked. Now I just to get my sump in and I'll be alright.

These are some pictures of my equipment and my tank. I use to do this year's ago , but with all the new tech , I'm like a newbie .


Sent from my N9518 using Tapatalk

 

[LuizW13]

It may be best to start over like the other guy said. I have been wanting a system for almost 3 years, and during all that time i was watching youtube videos, and reading these forums here and there. One thing i found is that the more i research, and the more i learned about the equipment, the more expensive my estimates became. It's probably best to invest in better equipment now, as opposed to buying equipment that will suffice for the initial startup, and then having to buy better versions of the same equipment you purchased months ago.
for example, I'm buying an All-in-on JBJ 45 G, it's expensive when you compare buying a regular tank from petco for a fraction of the price. But the benefits of the JBJ is that it comes with a built in Refugium, where i will hold my filtration media, and heater. Since i'm still in my early/mid 20's, i'm most likely going to move a few more times, so i didn't go with a bigger tank, if i did, i would probably invest in a sump area (the larger all-in-one tanks are incredibly expensive).
I'm buying one of most expensive equipment, Kessil A360 light(1), Vortechmp10 pump (1), cobalt heater(1), etc; mostly for reliability, programmability and aesthetics. Going with these expensive equipment would allow me to supplement them with just one more of each if in the future i decide to go bigger. It will also keep me from upgrading to "better" equipment because i already have it. I noticed that a lot of people will start off with okay equipment, and will then upgrade to better lights, or more accurate and reliable heater etc; essentially spending much more money over time, as opposed to spending more for initial cost and saving more long term. I'm always thinking a few years ahead.

That's my thought process, hopefully i did a decent job at explaining it.

If there's one video series that i really enjoy and find very informative, is the bulkReefSupply 52 weeks of reefing on Youtube. It's a really fantastic series.

I have zero equipment right now, i'm about 2 weeks out from purchasing the first bits and i feel extremely confident about fighting all sorts of problems. It'll probably take me another couple of months to even start cycling my tank, which is my making me super anxious. I want to just get this thing going already, but i know that if there's one thing that causes problems for us noobs is not having patience and rushing through all the steps. I actually think i'm getting a bit too OCD now, i have a bunch of sticky notes on all the corals and critters i want, how they behave with one another in captivitiy etc.

Anyway, good luck! :beachbum:

 

[Oceanutz]

I posted pictures of the tank now. And of my equipment that I'm putting in , I had to move my fish out of the13 gal. , So I can use it for my refugium , I'm setting up a 55gal too, as far as the ammonia , it's at 1.5 now. Before it was off the chart, the bleaching of the substrate and bleach in the water , brought all levels down. I was really lucky. I've never heard of doing that before, but if I had to start from scratch anyway , why not try right , guess what. It worked.

Sent from my N9518 using Tapatalk

 

[gone fishin]

I have to be honest I am having a hard time following your posts. Did you add bleach to your cycling tank to bring down the ammonia???

 

[Oceanutz]

I have to be honest I am having a hard time following your posts. Did you add bleach to your cycling tank to bring down the ammonia???

I do. Ammonia was off the chart. That was just for the water. The substrate, I soaked in bleach ,then outside in the sun then rinsed. Levels were high because the water still have high ammonia. I added a little bleach to the water and the levels immediately went back down no nitrates either

Sent from my N9518 using Tapatalk

 

[CStrickland]

Look ,I know all this , obviously , u only read what u wanted to read.

Ok. Make sure that you keep posting pics as your tank flourishes. I'm looking forward to being proven wrong. I'll stay subscribed to the thread so I can be dazzled by your success, but I won't offer any more advice.

 

[Oceanutz]

Not what I'm looking for in you , my apologies for insulting ur knowledge , as it is 25 years since I started this hobby back up. I was using a sump with bio cubes . At this point in time , I don't have alot of patients, which I know doesn't go well in this hobby, which has been my first and most biggest mistake.
So can we start again, with what I got. I have for tanks but I'm breaking down the smallest one to use as a refugium. Its a 13 gallon and I I couldn't get the ammonia levels to drop I've done water change after water change. I have a life reef protein skimmer and a sump that will hold 3 reactor I also have I reverse osmosis system and ultraviolet light made by lifegard. I also have a wave master pro by Red Sea and article chiller. I have a king 4 submergible pump. And a 3000 rpm little giant. That's the setup I have for my 90 gallon. It's not setup because this is all new to me that's why I need help. The fish are only in there for a few days and then they get transferred over to , two different tanks. I bought a bottle of microbacter7 to help pop the tank think that It should pop in 2 weeks.

My question is when I pop the tank should my Sump be the one that pops it or can I use these little filters until it pops? Right now I should be expecting slightly higher ammonia levels till it turns into nitrite. Is that correct? I took away the temporary protein skimmer as that would only hinder me popping the tank. I have rocks in there. Fish and I feed for another couple more days. I have to move the 30-gallon anyway so being in that tank will give him some relaxation for a while. By the way the 30-gallon has been going on for 3 months now. I would accept all the advice you can give me to help me out again I apologize for earlier.

Sent from my N9518 using Tapatalk

 

[OrQidz]

I call troll on this one....good grief!

 

[CStrickland]

It's cool. I can see how this situation would be overwhelming and frustrating.

Is the rush just from your lack of patience, or is there some other issue why you need to move the fish around so much?
I think whatever you do it would be best to have the tank all set up, no ammonia (.25 ppm is toxic), all the plumbing done, and then start adding animals. If that's possible it will take a lot of the overthinking away, and the expense of bacteria drops, and the risk to your stock.

I don't know what you mean by "pop"

There is some new tech, but some of the changes have been in the other direction. People tend to have less bioballs and canister or sponge filters now. It turns out they weren't all that helpful and if you leave it alone the tank runs better. You see tanks with no substrate at all, and just a skimmer for filtration pretty commonly.

 

[kevin_e]

What does popping a tank mean?

 

[Oceanutz]

I agree, the canister filter are nitrate traps and so far my experience I can't stand them. What I can do, is either sell them off,, or replace the media and use them like reactors on my other tanks which now I have a 55 gallon not set up. I'm adding a sump and refugium with that one to. my 30 gallon and a hexagon 35 gallon I use for my corals. I think I have too much in that tank two power heads circulating , one big , one small. With a canister of purigen , active carbon and ceramic rings . I'm going to pull the big one out and have two of them for the 90 gallon that should help with the wave master.

As far as Pop the tank. It's when the nitrites , reaches it's highest setting on the test , and then zeros back out , turning into a less harder bacteria, nitrate. When it safe to put fish back into the tank. As far as moving my fish around all the temperatures are the same and they don't seem to mind the moves. I had to move them around when I thought they were dying and in 5 minutes they picked themselves right back up and did better than I ever imagined. I have a batfish that doesn't like my Longnose butterfly. I guess it's because of the size of a small tank and the batfish needs a lot of space.
I impulsed bought the fish, with the smaller tanks and now I don't want to lose any of them.
Sent from my N9518 using Tapatalk

 

[kevin_e]

Cycling.

 

[TauntingBeef]

looks like he needs a new DI Canister