Have enough of Tropic Marin Pro Salt

[Hans-Werner]

Unfortunately it looks like they started to look into the issue, then just dropped the ball. Even worse than not even attempting IMO.

Hello,

I think what has to be said has been said at the first two pages of the thread. I have to repeat myself. The recipe has not been changed and if there was a change in the salt consistency caused by a change in the raw materials we try to change it back. The salt needs some weeks to get to the US by ship.
To check the production date we need the batch numbers but we still do not get any e-mails on this problem. Why? Does it only take place in this forum?
Please contact us via our homepage or e-mail to tropicmarin@tropic-marin.com.
If someone finds all values low I recommend to check the specific gravity/salinity with a second reliable method. If this would be true we would have to add more sodium chloride per batch which is not the case.

Regards

Hans-Werner

 

[tozzi]

Hello,

I think what has to be said has been said at the first two pages of the thread. I have to repeat myself. The recipe has not been changed and if there was a change in the salt consistency caused by a change in the raw materials we try to change it back. The salt needs some weeks to get to the US by ship.
To check the production date we need the batch numbers but we still do not get any e-mails on this problem. Why? Does it only take place in this forum?
Please contact us via our homepage or e-mail to tropicmarin@tropic-marin.com.
If someone finds all values low I recommend to check the specific gravity/salinity with a second reliable method. If this would be true we would have to add more sodium chloride per batch which is not the case.

Regards

Hans-Werner

Why not recall all the bad buckets and tell all the stores to send them back? Just like when a food is bad in a grocery store, or like marineland did with their heaters?

 

[Hans-Werner]

We already have done this. We have taken back all hardened buckets that have been found in stores or that the store owners have been aware of.
I think I have already mentioned that we of course exchange all hardened buckets that customers have bought.

Hans-Werner

 

[Kahuna]

Hans is right - TM did recall all of the hardened salt. However, I've been told by several distributors that it was due to an alk issue related to the hardening salt. I have a glass container of TMRP salt that was in a batch that was not hardened. I no longer have the lid because I use the TMRP bucket to store water change gear in, or I would gladly send in the lid. I can tell Hans when and where it was purchased and perhaps he can determine the batch that way. I'm not going to post the info here because I don't want to start something that can't be backed up with facts. I dealt with my issue and blame nobody but myself, as I bought those buckets at half price from an LFS knowing that they had been recalled for the hardness issue, and figured that the brick consistency wouldn't hurt the chemistry; I was wrong because of the alk issue. The LFS was never told about that, or I would've never bought them.

Anyway, I mixed up one gallon of RO and the last of this NON-HARDENED TMRP salt to create a gallon of salt water at SpGr 1.025. I tossed the tablespoon or so of leftover salt in the garbage.

It came in at the following after 1 hour with an airstone and being agitated with a small picojet pump:

pH - 8.1 @ 78 deg F
SpGr -1.025
nitrates, nitirites, ammonia, phosphate - 0
alk - 6.74 DKh
Ca - 390
Mg - 1290

I've moved on - all of my issues were with the buckets that were hardened and I fought chemistry issues constantly. I sold the 5 remaining buckets to a local FOWLR hobbyist with the issue explained for $20 a bucket.

Because the TMRP salt is hard to get here where I live, I've switched brands, my tank has recovered, and my SPS is finally taking off. I'm willing to cut TM some slack and I may return to it in time. Right now, I can't.

 

[pmrossetti]

may we ask what you switched to?

 

[slow_leak]

I have used up 3 buckets of the hard stuff. Original response was material was hardened from hot storage conditions in Atlanta, Ga.

I saw no problems on 180 total gallons with 10-15% water changes every other week. May we ask what your total water volume was and percentage and frequency of water changes that effected corals?

Also what did you use for calcium and alkalinity?

I will continue to use TM. I now get sack that holds 300 gallons.

 

[Kahuna]

I have used up 3 buckets of the hard stuff. Original response was material was hardened from hot storage conditions in Atlanta, Ga.

I saw no problems on 180 total gallons with 10-15% water changes every other week. May we ask what your total water volume was and percentage and frequency of water changes that effected corals?

Also what did you use for calcium and alkalinity?

I will continue to use TM. I now get sack that holds 300 gallons.

First, finding this thread is what allowed me to fix my tank issues as they related to alk and Ca swings. I'm sure that TM does make an excellent product and this is just one of those things.

I switched to Red Sea Coral Pro. That doesn't mean it's better than anyone else's product, just that it is REALLY working for me. Some of our locals here are using ESV and Brightwell and reporting great results as well.

Having said that, moisture was the cause of the caking according to what the LFS's were told here. Not sure how hot, dry storage would cause a dry product to cake.

Yes, you may ask. I was changing 30 gallons out at a time every 3-4 weeks on a 110 gal system. I use Randy Holmes Farley's 2-part with magnesium recipe #2.

 

[tozzi]

Not sure how hot, dry storage would cause a dry product to cake.

Easy, It wouldnt. I could see if the lids werent sealing allowing moisture and it hardened. How hot could it of been in storage that time of the year? Exactly, its not, and besides i really dont think heat would b an issue. Buckets r sealed. I have used tmp for a long time and reg tm for even longer. After reading much of this thread, my conclusion is simply poor quality control. They should test their batches more often, and get recalls out way faster,make more people aware of it before it goes in their tank.

 

[Hans-Werner]

Exactly, its not, and besides i really dont think heat would b an issue. Buckets r sealed.

Last summer wasn´t hot in the Southern US? You know how hot it gets in an dark brown oversea container? You know when we have recalled the buckets?

Regarding hardening you maybe should ask a chemist what heat causes to hydrated salts. Only some of the salts in a marine salt mix are anhydrous, most components are hydrated salts. Hydrated salts melt when they are heated over a specific melting point, calcium chloride tetrahydrate for example melts at 35°C. It is sufficient when only one of the main components melts to solidify the complete salt mix.

Hans-Werner

 

[Rosti]

Hi Hans-Werner, I have being using TM Pro and Bioactiv for year now without any problems. I have two buckets of TM Pro hard as a brick, what should I do with it and are there any problems continue using it?

 

[AndyH5512]

Last summer wasn´t hot in the Southern US? You know how hot it gets in an dark brown oversea container? You know when we have recalled the buckets?

Regarding hardening you maybe should ask a chemist what heat causes to hydrated salts. Only some of the salts in a marine salt mix are anhydrous, most components are hydrated salts. Hydrated salts melt when they are heated over a specific melting point, calcium chloride tetrahydrate for example melts at 35°C. It is sufficient when only one of the main components melts to solidify the complete salt mix.

Hans-Werner

Maybe they should ask a chemist? Isn't that what Tropic Marin is supposed to have or should have on staff to make sure the salt mix is proper? That sounds like you are flaming those who are having issues with TM salt. I enjoy this hobby, and do not need to involve a chemist to know your levels are way out of whack. In addition, I got tired of paying nearly twice as much for TM salt and still having to supplement it. Going with another brand was a no brainer. Perhaps you need to ask a qualified public relations company how you can save the money that is being lost due to this incident. I know I wont be using TM anymore.

 

[Hans-Werner]

Hi Rosti,

We have still no complaint or any conversation about problems outside this forum. Everything we know about possible damages we know from this forum and it is not much.
If you suspect that the hardened salt will do no good to your tank we recommend to exchange it to get a new sound one. You can exchange it either at the store where you bought it or contact Lou Ekus office@tropicmarin-usa.com .

Hans-Werner

P. S.: Andy, we have a chemist. No chemist will tell you exactly what might happen to a mixture of dozends of salts when doing minor changes.

 

[Rosti]

Hi Hans-Werner,

I don't have or seeing ANY problems with this(TM Pro) salt, I perform small daily WC's (2%), alternating between TM Pro and Bioactiv. My last two buckets are rock hard. I was just asking your opinion if there is a problem continue using it or exchange it. I personally don't see any problems.

 

[Hans-Werner]

Hi Rosti,

as you see I am hesitating a bit.
If you feel somehow uncomfortable with the hardened salt, maybe because it is difficult to get pieces of the right size for the watervolumes you prepare or whatever, do not hesitate to exchange the salt.
Only if you say, it is more work for you to prepare the salt and contact our US office or your store then use the salt.
We are very sorry that hardened salt from us got into the shops and was bought. We understand that it is inconvenient for you anyway and we want you to go the way that is most convenient for you now.

Hans-Werner

 

[Cozmo4]

For what it's worth, I've been using Tropic Marin Pro almost exclusively for two years on my 185g and for 4 months on my newer 210. I've had no issues with hardened salt, inconsistent element measurements etc. So, while this thread seems to be "the place" to communicate issues, surely there are many of us that have used and continue to use Tropic Marin salt with great satisfaction.

 

[njudson]

I have used a whole bucket of rock hard Bio Activ over the last few months with no ill effects. really like the salt actually

 

[Captainfester]

red sea coral pro. only way to go. my lfs reps kent salt. i used it once when i was short on red sea. not bad stuff but i prefer the Red sea any day

 

[Rosti]

Hi Rosti,

as you see I am hesitating a bit.
If you feel somehow uncomfortable with the hardened salt, maybe because it is difficult to get pieces of the right size for the watervolumes you prepare or whatever, do not hesitate to exchange the salt.
Only if you say, it is more work for you to prepare the salt and contact our US office or your store then use the salt.
We are very sorry that hardened salt from us got into the shops and was bought. We understand that it is inconvenient for you anyway and we want you to go the way that is most convenient for you now.

Hans-Werner

Thank you Sir, i will continue using it

 

[dieselkeeper]

I lost some SPS colonies due to TMP salt. I too was an avid user of the Pro salt. It always mixed at the right parameters. I used Pro for years, never testing a new batch much less a new bucket because I thought the parameters was where they was when I first starting using Pro. I didn't test my tank water also because it was always right on the money. When I noticed things going down hill, it was traced to the salt testing with alk of 5.2. I never got a bucket with harden salt. It's taking me 6 months to get my tank back to where it was with new growth. I will never use tropic marin salt again. I blame myself for not testing my water like I should have.

 

[Perrier01]

There were a problem with this salt around last year ago in Southern California.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2010390

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1942271