Having a Difficult Time Sexing Spotted Mandarin!

[HollyG]

OK.. so, usually I can sex Mandarins quite well, even spotted, BUT this one I am having a bit of an issue with! I've had this one for about 3 months or so... eating Ova, Brine, Mysis. I have heard that Spotted females can have a tiny little spike and now I am starting to hear that they don't at all! I am having a hard time sexing this one! I found a Pink 100% male spotted (pictured below) and my, what I think is female, is Green. I did put him in the main display with her for a bit and there really wasn't that much aggression until the next day, but he would run away from her because she would bite him but he has never fought back. So, until I am 100% sure I took him out and put him in the sump and also to fatten him up a bit more too. He is also eating Ova and brine. I train as many Mandarins as possible to eat prepared foods when we get them in at work Anyway... what do you guys think? I would LOVE to be able to have a pair, especially with their big color differences! The female does seem to have a small spike and in the 3 months of having her has not grown at all. The one that I KNOW is male has a definate elongated pointed dorsal. The females seems to be not as sharp and long... but I suppose that males can have different size dorals, right? So, is my apparent "female" actually a Male, just with a smaller spike?? If so, then I will want to trya nd find a pink female... but I want to be 100% sure that he is male before giving my pink male away. My "female" is also VERY fat and a very round body shape. Is that more of a female thing? I've never seen such a round Male mandarin before. So, what do u think guys? I need a bit of help here. Thanks




Male

 

[HollyG]

I tried getting better pictures of the female but she is kind of camera shy, when I got close she would turn around and I was unable to get a good side shot. I tried waiting her out for her to flare too, but kept missing it!! lol

 

[HollyG]

Here's another with flash.

 

[Moort82]

Not an expert but dealt with this species quite a lot and i'd agree with what you say in that some females do seem to have an obvious small spike. I know these are definitely females as they have been paired and witnessed spawning behaviour in them. The difficulty come though in that i've also seen males come in that didn't haven't a spike at all. Whether that is because they were immature i don't know, but i've also read this can sometimes be put down to shipping stress.
As you have had this one for 3 months, that should be more than enough time to rule out shipping stress and it would have regrown by then unless there was severe damage. The behaviour you describe sounds to me like normal mandarin behaviour, in that she is chasing the male off because she isn't ready to spawn. In the wild he would control a harem and just more on. So the agression coming from her and lack of retaliation sounds right. Mandarins can be quite aggressive but put two males together and it wouldn't be as one sided i wouldn't have thought.
What i would do if this was me was to feed him up like you are doing and then use and acclimation box so she is aware of him in there. You might notice she comes into breeding condition or if there is signs of flared fins etc you know you might have two males but you won't know until you try.
Good luck

 

[Squidmotron]

Two words.

Barry.
Manilow.

 

[rorroreef]

I would venture to say that it is a female, but I'm not expert. lol