Hawaiian Reefers
- Thread starter Holokai
- Start date
Re: Bravo? nonsense...
Re: Bravo? nonsense...
Has it come to this already? Normally I do not like to rant, but this is something I feel strongly about.
This makes me sad. Mr. Delbeek is one of Hawaii's most knowledgeable and respected aquarists, and we can do better than alienating people like him with petty insults. As somebody to whom our hobby is a full-time job, he has a perspective that most of us lack.
Charles has pointed out something that is plainly obvious: people on this thread have openly admitted to breaking state and federal laws. I do not need to quote them; their posts stick out like sore thumbs in the first two pages of this thread and looking them up is easy. This is not a trivial matter; people have served jail time in Hawaii for this and there are people on this island who would be very happy to see you punished for it. Discussing this sort of thing here, or trying to swap non-native coral frags at club meetings (as one poster did indeed suggest) is a bad idea for their own sake.
While that may sound harsh, it's the plain truth and there's no sense sugar-coating it. Most of us understand this and are willing to work with the system instead of against it, but apparently not everyone does. This can only serve to reinforce the negative opinions that many people have of aquariums.
I respectfully disagree. This being a democratic society, laws stem from the concerns of the people. The anti-aquarium laws that we now have arose by this process - the people of Hawaii recognized that intact reefs were important for our lifestyle and economy. Taking live rock and breaking coral can be extremely destructive activities, and we are much better off now that they're prohibited. In the '60s and '70s, it was common for divers to demolish entire coral heads in search of rare shells and other specimens!
Will a small number of aquarium hobbyists taking small amounts of live rock and coral fragments for their own personal use really damage the environment? Of course not, but the powers that be will not recognize that unless it can be demonstrated by people like us. If we make our voices heard, the regulations can reflect our interests as well, although it may not happen overnight.
As it stands, collecting corals and live rock can be done legally with the proper permits. As a matter of fact, I have a permit that allows me to collect live rock for research purposes (I work at UH), although obviously I can't use it in my aquarium. Scientists here routinely collect corals and live rock, which they are allowed to do because the state feels their activities are beneficial and outweigh the potential cost. I believe it is possible to demonstrate that our hobby is an asset to our state rather than a burden.
Regarding invertebrates, many can reproduce asexually and there may be more risk of them becoming established than with fish. IMO enjoying introduced species in aquaria is something that should only be permitted if there are careful provisions to prevent their escape.
Here is a good article about how deep reef habitats in Hawaii are being overgrown by an introduced soft coral. This is something that I have seen personally, and it breaks my heart. It is part of my job at UH to review video records from our submersibles, including some of the dives mentioned in the article. Seeing once-thriving forests of black coral trees lifeless and engulfed by snowflake coral is an awesome sight; one which we should avoid repeating at all costs.
Re: Bravo? nonsense...
Has it come to this already? Normally I do not like to rant, but this is something I feel strongly about.
This makes me sad. Mr. Delbeek is one of Hawaii's most knowledgeable and respected aquarists, and we can do better than alienating people like him with petty insults. As somebody to whom our hobby is a full-time job, he has a perspective that most of us lack.
Charles has pointed out something that is plainly obvious: people on this thread have openly admitted to breaking state and federal laws. I do not need to quote them; their posts stick out like sore thumbs in the first two pages of this thread and looking them up is easy. This is not a trivial matter; people have served jail time in Hawaii for this and there are people on this island who would be very happy to see you punished for it. Discussing this sort of thing here, or trying to swap non-native coral frags at club meetings (as one poster did indeed suggest) is a bad idea for their own sake.
While that may sound harsh, it's the plain truth and there's no sense sugar-coating it. Most of us understand this and are willing to work with the system instead of against it, but apparently not everyone does. This can only serve to reinforce the negative opinions that many people have of aquariums.
I respectfully disagree. This being a democratic society, laws stem from the concerns of the people. The anti-aquarium laws that we now have arose by this process - the people of Hawaii recognized that intact reefs were important for our lifestyle and economy. Taking live rock and breaking coral can be extremely destructive activities, and we are much better off now that they're prohibited. In the '60s and '70s, it was common for divers to demolish entire coral heads in search of rare shells and other specimens!
Will a small number of aquarium hobbyists taking small amounts of live rock and coral fragments for their own personal use really damage the environment? Of course not, but the powers that be will not recognize that unless it can be demonstrated by people like us. If we make our voices heard, the regulations can reflect our interests as well, although it may not happen overnight.
As it stands, collecting corals and live rock can be done legally with the proper permits. As a matter of fact, I have a permit that allows me to collect live rock for research purposes (I work at UH), although obviously I can't use it in my aquarium. Scientists here routinely collect corals and live rock, which they are allowed to do because the state feels their activities are beneficial and outweigh the potential cost. I believe it is possible to demonstrate that our hobby is an asset to our state rather than a burden.
Regarding invertebrates, many can reproduce asexually and there may be more risk of them becoming established than with fish. IMO enjoying introduced species in aquaria is something that should only be permitted if there are careful provisions to prevent their escape.
Here is a good article about how deep reef habitats in Hawaii are being overgrown by an introduced soft coral. This is something that I have seen personally, and it breaks my heart. It is part of my job at UH to review video records from our submersibles, including some of the dives mentioned in the article. Seeing once-thriving forests of black coral trees lifeless and engulfed by snowflake coral is an awesome sight; one which we should avoid repeating at all costs.
Last edited:
I think Nautilus808 was exaggerating. As long as you are gentle with the animals you catch, they should be OK. If you are catching fish with nets, treat them carefully and make sure they don't get tangled, bruised, or abraded. Hold them in solid containers (not collapsible bags) with pleny of clean water so they don't go hypoxic or get ammonia burn. Most of this is common sense; the rules are the same as handling fish in your aquarium.
Learning to catch fish is another matter, however! I remember when I first started, and I was awful at it - all I could catch were puffers and scorpion fish. The only solution is lots of practice and a willingness to learn from your mistakes. As a beginner, you might find some unique specimens stuck in tidepools, which will usually be easy to catch.
oama
Premium Member
I use to dive Kaneohe Bay a lot 8 years or more ago. We'd encounter Lemon Peel Angels every now and then. They were thought to be "released" fish. But, If you know where to look, you could find Potters and Flames in shallow waters (<10ft). But that was 8 years ago. I have no idea how collecting pressures have effected the reefs since.
cthetoy
Active member
At first I was wondering whats the big deal in keeping imported corals in Hawaii compared to the Mainland until I went to Hawaii and swam in the ocean. I forgot, the water is warmer there. All it takes is a frag of coral from you tank to hit the ocean and then it could become and invasive coral devestating native species.
For example, here in California someone was cleaning out his tank and dumped it in Huntington Harbor and thought nothing of it. A few years later his small piece of caulerpa which he dumped as well florished in the Harbor choking out marine life and native plants species. It took the City and State millions of dollars and countless years to remove this caulerpa. Now this caulerpa is banned in California
For example, here in California someone was cleaning out his tank and dumped it in Huntington Harbor and thought nothing of it. A few years later his small piece of caulerpa which he dumped as well florished in the Harbor choking out marine life and native plants species. It took the City and State millions of dollars and countless years to remove this caulerpa. Now this caulerpa is banned in California
Matt - snowflake coral is thought to have been introduced by ship ballast water or encrustations on ships coming in? At least that's my recollection ...
I remember when I first tried collecting my own fish - I was randomly swishing dipnets in tidepools to catch baby mamo and manini. Mostly released because I was just having fun (this is small kid time). I can't say that I've improved all that much since then ... good thing that I don't collect my own fish.
Spleen
I remember when I first tried collecting my own fish - I was randomly swishing dipnets in tidepools to catch baby mamo and manini. Mostly released because I was just having fun (this is small kid time). I can't say that I've improved all that much since then ... good thing that I don't collect my own fish.
Spleen
Hey guys, I sent everyone a PM with date, time and directions to the BBQ... If I missed someone that would like to attend please send me a PM.
Also, please respond with a PM if you plan on attending so I can plan appropriatley. So far I have six that have acknowledged that they are coming.
See you there!
Don
Also, please respond with a PM if you plan on attending so I can plan appropriatley. So far I have six that have acknowledged that they are coming.
See you there!
Don
nanoreefbro
New member
Hi guys, I was on Oahu (Honolulu, HI) for 8 months but I'm back in San Diego now. While I was there I setup a 12 gal nano. There weren't a whole lot of places to get fish but I did go to Coral Fish Hawaii in Aiea. The best place I liked the best was Modern Pet Center down in Honolulu. They had the best prices and the best looking fish. Their diver goes out every Saturday. Be sure to check them out.
superxdude
Member
Hopefully next time I will check this thread and my PMs.
SuperXdude
SuperXdude
