Hawaiian Reefers
- Thread starter Holokai
- Start date
zemuron114
In Memoriam
collecting is difficult, but i wouldn't call it "dangerous". there are many levels of collecting you can do. Snorkeling or free diving is the easiest. As long as you handle the fish correctly there shouldn't be a problem with stress...
then theres scuba and deeper dives which means longer decompresion time for the fish and yourself. it is hard though. fish are fast!
then theres scuba and deeper dives which means longer decompresion time for the fish and yourself. it is hard though. fish are fast!
zemuron114
In Memoriam
there are much better people to ask then me. lol i dont collect much. RGBmatt, alikatoes, and pactrop are the ones to ask
what did you want to bring home?
what did you want to bring home?
I was pointed to this thread and feel the need to point out, as others have, that anyone who posts messages mentioning that they have illegally imported animals in their tanks in Hawaii, should be aware that having done so (importing banned animals) constitutes a FEDERAL offense. As such, RC can be required to turn over the identity of the poster to federal officials if asked. If you are caught with these things in your home tank, you will be charged and taken to federal court where fines and jail time are a distinct possibility.
Still think this is worth the risk?
There is no sense bemoaning the laws and questioning their logic, the reality is they are there ... so learn to live with them or work to change them ... but don't break them.
As for a reef club in Hawaii, if done legally, and following the rules, having a legal "reef" tank can be a fun thing and is very doable as others have mentioned.
By encouraging legal tanks of this type then one day you may be able to convince the state to allow private collection of live rock. However, posting on a public forum and bragging about the live rock and corals you now have, will only stiffen the state's resolve to maintain or strengthen the ban and penalties involved, and helps NO ONE. It is individuals such as yourselves that state officials always point to as to why they have these bans i.e. you can't trust people to do the right thing.
Bottom line, do everyone a favour and stop importing illegal animals, stop collecting live rock and work with other hobbyists in the state to lobby them to relax some of the collection restrictions.
Aloha!
JCD
Still think this is worth the risk?
There is no sense bemoaning the laws and questioning their logic, the reality is they are there ... so learn to live with them or work to change them ... but don't break them.
As for a reef club in Hawaii, if done legally, and following the rules, having a legal "reef" tank can be a fun thing and is very doable as others have mentioned.
By encouraging legal tanks of this type then one day you may be able to convince the state to allow private collection of live rock. However, posting on a public forum and bragging about the live rock and corals you now have, will only stiffen the state's resolve to maintain or strengthen the ban and penalties involved, and helps NO ONE. It is individuals such as yourselves that state officials always point to as to why they have these bans i.e. you can't trust people to do the right thing.
Bottom line, do everyone a favour and stop importing illegal animals, stop collecting live rock and work with other hobbyists in the state to lobby them to relax some of the collection restrictions.
Aloha!
JCD
Paco1l1d
New member
A little off topic, but somthing that has been in the back of my mind since I started reading this. But does anyone know the basis of why such a strict ban on coral and most other invertabrates has been put in place, but the flow of marine fish in and out of the Islands is allowed to flow so freely?
If we could work off of what started the problem with the people in power, we may have a chance to better the law for the marine eosystem around the Islands, and make them a more welcoming place to the marine reef enthusiust.
Just my $0.02
If we could work off of what started the problem with the people in power, we may have a chance to better the law for the marine eosystem around the Islands, and make them a more welcoming place to the marine reef enthusiust.
Just my $0.02
zemuron114
In Memoriam
there is a LONG list of fish that Cannot enter Hawaii. If AG finds one of these fish in the box while checking they will confiscate it. fish do not flow as freely as you think.
Bravo? nonsense...
Bravo? nonsense...
So much to offer... but So conceited...
If others have pointed it out, why do you feel the need? Have you determined that something said in this thread is incriminating? I don’t believe anyone said they imported anything... It was mentioned it is possible, and what banned animals are you referring to? The few animals not on the conditionally approved list, or restricted list B with a permit?
People "bemoan" laws every day, just watch CNN or FOX... questioning logic is the beginning of working toward change, and I encourage it. That does not mean I encourage breaking the law. By the way… wasn’t the largest case of an alien species introduced to our beautiful State caused by a State employee at Coconut Island? Just to continue the bemoaning.
Do everyone a favor? Who is importing illegal animals on this thread exactly? Who said they collected live rock? Are we not working with other hobbyists in the State, in the very beginning stages right now? Shouldn’t you be praising those that are trying to culture their own live rock?
You are an experienced and respected aquarist Charles, but I am frankly amazed at your condescending and frankly threatening attitude toward the intelligent people in this thread. Did you take the time to read all the posts in this thread, as I took the time to purchase and read your book? I have already had people call me discouraged by your post, hence my anger. Your response was a little off the cuff and premature, Charles. I would ask you to apologize to the people of this thread, but I now feel that may be below you. Are you a friend or foe, JCD? or just an antagonist?
To the good people of our club, I am willing to set up our own website for our club, just say the word.
Still Respectfully,
Don Williams
Bravo? nonsense...
So much to offer... but So conceited...
If others have pointed it out, why do you feel the need? Have you determined that something said in this thread is incriminating? I don’t believe anyone said they imported anything... It was mentioned it is possible, and what banned animals are you referring to? The few animals not on the conditionally approved list, or restricted list B with a permit?
People "bemoan" laws every day, just watch CNN or FOX... questioning logic is the beginning of working toward change, and I encourage it. That does not mean I encourage breaking the law. By the way… wasn’t the largest case of an alien species introduced to our beautiful State caused by a State employee at Coconut Island? Just to continue the bemoaning.
Do everyone a favor? Who is importing illegal animals on this thread exactly? Who said they collected live rock? Are we not working with other hobbyists in the State, in the very beginning stages right now? Shouldn’t you be praising those that are trying to culture their own live rock?
You are an experienced and respected aquarist Charles, but I am frankly amazed at your condescending and frankly threatening attitude toward the intelligent people in this thread. Did you take the time to read all the posts in this thread, as I took the time to purchase and read your book? I have already had people call me discouraged by your post, hence my anger. Your response was a little off the cuff and premature, Charles. I would ask you to apologize to the people of this thread, but I now feel that may be below you. Are you a friend or foe, JCD? or just an antagonist?
To the good people of our club, I am willing to set up our own website for our club, just say the word.
Still Respectfully,
Don Williams
Let's all take a deep breath. I took Charles' message to be more of a precaution regarding the laws and the possible penalties involved. As such, it's a good reminder to all of us. I agree that as reef aquarists, we need to be aware of our environment and need to make sure that we don't cause damage to our reefs by our activities and make sure we prevent nonnative species from being established in our waters. Having said that, it's hard to imagine how our hobby could do so with the limited numbers we have and the type of organisms that we hope to keep (for instance, it's not like our colonies of palythoas are going to break out of our aquariums and sneak into the wild unlike snakes, iguanas, sugar gliders, etc. etc.)
As many of us have said before, the goal here is to promote reefkeeping in Hawaii and the ways to have a tank here. We have already discussed the possibility of captive culturing of live rock and I think this is very doable and would be highly sustainable. By promoting our hobby in this fashion, we make it easier for us in the future to get the laws changed regarding the importation of certain organisms and the collection of other organisms here in Hawaii that are currently prohibited. We could also work on captive propagation of the native palys and zoos that we have now to reduce the burden of wild-caught specimens. The public still believes that all corals grow at the pace of glaciers whereas the rapid growth of Acropora sp. has been well documented in RC and in the scientific literature (non-native to Hawaii though
)
I would like to work within the boundaires of Reef Central if possible but if others wish to move this forum to a private website, I'd be OK with either.
My 2 cents (my 2 grains of oolitic sand)
Spleen
As many of us have said before, the goal here is to promote reefkeeping in Hawaii and the ways to have a tank here. We have already discussed the possibility of captive culturing of live rock and I think this is very doable and would be highly sustainable. By promoting our hobby in this fashion, we make it easier for us in the future to get the laws changed regarding the importation of certain organisms and the collection of other organisms here in Hawaii that are currently prohibited. We could also work on captive propagation of the native palys and zoos that we have now to reduce the burden of wild-caught specimens. The public still believes that all corals grow at the pace of glaciers whereas the rapid growth of Acropora sp. has been well documented in RC and in the scientific literature (non-native to Hawaii though
)I would like to work within the boundaires of Reef Central if possible but if others wish to move this forum to a private website, I'd be OK with either.
My 2 cents (my 2 grains of oolitic sand)
Spleen
Yes, the club is still happening. The best thing for those of us who respect the law, and have a love for coral and fish in Hawaii is to stick together in my opinion. I have never found a better "slice" of society than those who can appreciate and care for coral. As far as laws and regulations, don't expect those to change for a long time, if ever, thats just the way it works.
Don
Don
Wow, that was a pretty intense post nodea717. Don't forget Charles could be one of our best allies in this whole thing. I don't think attacking him will help us get to where we want to be any faster. I don't think he said anything out of line.
I do believe people were referring to bringing in coral at the beginning of this thread.
I also must comment on the notion of coral crawling out of our tanks to the ocean. this may be true but people do stupid things everyday. that is why I see Christmas island flame angels in Waianae boat harbor, and lemon peel angels at the Oceanic Institute pier. I highly doubt they crawled there on their own.
Please people. we are not here to knock each other down.
he was only saying what I believe RGBmatt, Zemeron and many others have also been saying.
I do believe people were referring to bringing in coral at the beginning of this thread.
I also must comment on the notion of coral crawling out of our tanks to the ocean. this may be true but people do stupid things everyday. that is why I see Christmas island flame angels in Waianae boat harbor, and lemon peel angels at the Oceanic Institute pier. I highly doubt they crawled there on their own.
Please people. we are not here to knock each other down.
he was only saying what I believe RGBmatt, Zemeron and many others have also been saying.
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zemuron114
In Memoriam
I also agree with pactrop. JCD would help immensely in our endeavors to change anything. I dont think he was attacking anyone specifically. But he did make valid points. If there is any mention of bringing in corals or illegal fish/rock etc, RC may be forced to reveal specific names. Even the mention of having a singe coral (since ALL coral is illegal here)
I am all for a reef club/forum, and would love to talk story with everyone! We just have to be careful in doing it. hopefully the laws change eventually, because this would be a perfect place to have a reef tank and even culture live corals for re-sale to help the hobby. You cannot beat natural sunlight!
Hope to see you all at the get together - when is it by the way?
I am all for a reef club/forum, and would love to talk story with everyone! We just have to be careful in doing it. hopefully the laws change eventually, because this would be a perfect place to have a reef tank and even culture live corals for re-sale to help the hobby. You cannot beat natural sunlight!
Hope to see you all at the get together - when is it by the way?
I also completely agree with this and this is once again where people need to be educated about the dangers of releasing their aquarium inhabitants into the wild. I think that DLNR actually has an ad about this on TV that I see every now and then. Still, this is not a problem unique to marine invertebrates or fish. Should we therefore prohibit the importation of anything that is non-native to the Hawaiian islands? Bunny rabbits? Cats and dogs? (sshhhhhh! :strooper: )
We will definitely pull ahead better if we work together rather than work against each other.
Just out of curiosity, how does a Christmas Island flame angel differ from a Hawaiian flame angel?
Spleen
Great question.
Here is a thread about it
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=883278
Also, Flame angels arent usually found in 1 foot of water at boat harbors. That is just a really easy place to drop them in the ocean.
Here is a thread about it
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=883278
Also, Flame angels arent usually found in 1 foot of water at boat harbors. That is just a really easy place to drop them in the ocean.
