Heat Produced by MH Bulbs

[Poppy828]

So my beautiful wife tells me the other night that the living room is much more hot than the bedrooms. SO much that she took a temp reading and found out that the difference was 6 degrees. The blame is the 400w halides. Quite possibly could be a source of it or all the problem. I have the new canopy vented at the top. Meaning, I routed out a 40" x 18" hole at the top, then routed a lip within that hole and placed egg crate on top to close it from the kitties taking a swim if they get curious. SO I imagine this is allowing some heat to dissipate out into the living room. Can't be that much though as my tank temp likes to rise with these lights too. I keep it at 80 and by end of day with a fan blowing across the sump, 82.5 or even 83 at times. Big swing and I don't like that. Looking for a smaller fan to place inside the canopy and blow across the top to help with the heat from the bulbs and hopefully help keep the water temp more constant. We are running (2) 400w SE 12k Reeflux with Corlavue ballasts and (2) 39w Giesmann T5's. I also have a fan blowing on the ballasts once they come on to help that issue.

Anyway, my question is this......

What is the difference in heat from the 400w SE to a 250w SE? 400w DE and 250W DE? I tried some google searches, but could not locate a specific topic to read. Maybe my search credentials were bad.

Elizabeth (darling wife of mine) said that she did not notice this heat with the last tank and we used DE 250 12k reeflux in the Reefoptix pendants with the coralvue ballasts. 1 fan blowing across the sump and the temp fluctuated only .2 - .3 degress throughout the day. I can live with that.

Any and all help as always is appreciated.

Thanks,

T & E

 

[skunkmere]

its gonna be good thing soon with winter comming.

 

[ppurcell]

I copied a design from yznhmr and mhurley and created an enclosure for the lighting and then use dryer duct to pipe the heat away from the tank. You might be able to do something similar with a canopy, but it may be a little trickier. In a canopy, you would need to find a way to add a sheet (or a couple of sheets if you can't use a single sheet and be able to remove it for cleaning or bulb changes) of 1/4" or thicker acrylic between the lights and the water and then add a powerful enough airflow to carry the heat out of enclosure so that the temp stays low enough that the acrylic won't warp.

Might be tricky to get enough separation from the bulbs and still have room to get into the tank or haveairflow on the water surface in a canopy.

 

[BlakDuc]

I think that the fan blowing over the bulbs during the day is the key. It keeps the bulbs themselves a little bit cooler the whole time they are lit. I have a fan that is on a timer to run with the Mh lights. I also have a sump fan that runs 24/7. Good luck

 

[ppurcell]

I can say that since I built my light box, I have hardly ever had heat temp problems in the tank or room. We seldom run the house air conditioner and I have a small 5,000 watt window air conditioner in the fish room. Between the light box and the little A/C I can manage tank temp to within 1 degree even if the house temp rises to around 90. Any higher than that, and I have to put the house A/C on anyway.

 

[Poppy828]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11048345#post11048345 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ppurcell
I copied a design from yznhmr and mhurley and created an enclosure for the lighting and then use dryer duct to pipe the heat away from the tank. You might be able to do something similar with a canopy, but it may be a little trickier. In a canopy, you would need to find a way to add a sheet (or a couple of sheets if you can't use a single sheet and be able to remove it for cleaning or bulb changes) of 1/4" or thicker acrylic between the lights and the water and then add a powerful enough airflow to carry the heat out of enclosure so that the temp stays low enough that the acrylic won't warp.

Might be tricky to get enough separation from the bulbs and still have room to get into the tank or haveairflow on the water surface in a canopy.

I understand the concept, but not sure how I would go about placing acrylic in there and still get the fan in to blow the heat out of the enclosure. The canopy is 18" tall (outside) I run Mimilums for reflectors and with those screwed to the top of the canopy, I only have about 8" or so between the bottom of the reflector and the water. That piece of acrylic would limit that space even more. The lumenarcs are big even though they are Mini.

Wouldn't a fan just blowing across the top do that for me?

 

[pk1]

EDIT: too slow on the "search" function. Anyhow-Ya, what they said!

 

[Poppy828]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11048362#post11048362 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GrandeGixxer
I think that the fan blowing over the bulbs during the day is the key. It keeps the bulbs themselves a little bit cooler the whole time they are lit. I have a fan that is on a timer to run with the Mh lights. I also have a sump fan that runs 24/7. Good luck

Why are you running the sump fan 24/7 Joe? More evaporation cooling or?????

 

[ppurcell]

That would probably would work fine. I like the acrylic because it keeps a lot of the heat out of the tank. But if your main concern is getting the heat out of the room, you can just add a duct to the output side of the canopy and pipe the heat outside in the summer or into your cold air return during the winter.

Just make sure you have enough airflow. You can get booster fans that can pull or push air. I'll get you the make/model of the one I got from Hurley if you are interested.

 

[Poppy828]

Well I am concerned with both. Being in an Apt makes it difficult to pipe anything and have it look nice especially when the duct work is halfway across the room.

The heat in the tank is more my concern. Keeping stable temps is much better than a 2 or 3 degree change in any given 8-10 hour period. She will like the heat in the winter from the lights when it's cold as you know what.

 

[Poppy828]

Do you think that donwgrading to the 250w is beneficial enough to make the change? I just set this up Sunday evening and would hate to change. However, if it would be a significant amount of change, then I would consider doing it.

 

[ostrow]

Todd... you don't have canopy fans in there?????

 

[SlowCobra]

Todd it is actually beneficial to have a temp swing of less than 5 degrees daily. When you keep it rock solid the corals only develop proteins and amino acids at that temperature range. In the event of a huge swing later they are unable to cope with the change properly usually leading to death. Personally I would lower the starting temperature to about 78 and let it rise and fall some.

As for heating the room. I think my 400w SE's run cooler than the 250 DE's I have. A huge difference, perhaps not, but enough to be able to touch the reflector with the 400's and move them without burning yourself. Can't say that for the 250's.

 

[ppurcell]

I think there was an article published a few months ago that showed that the increased PAR outputs on the 400 weren't enough to justify the addition heat and costs. Maybe someone who actually saw/read the article could post a link or summary.

I did notice that shortly after that, there were a lot of 400 watt systems up for sale.

 

[Poppy828]

No Joel. I never used them iin the past, but I never used 400w either. The last tank was perfect (in my biased opinion of course) Never had heat issues with the 1 fan over the sump, room stayed cool, everything was controlled by the RK2 and I let the tank go. It was fine.

This time around, It's not so perfect. Heat issues, noisy drains blah blah blah.

 

[ostrow]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11048660#post11048660 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ppurcell
I think there was an article published a few months ago that showed that the increased PAR outputs on the 400 weren't enough to justify the addition heat and costs. Maybe someone who actually saw/read the article could post a link or summary.

I did notice that shortly after that, there were a lot of 400 watt systems up for sale.

Whoa! I need to see that article, like, today ... before I do this swap I'm considering.

Sssshhhh.... don't tell Todd.

 

[Poppy828]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11048659#post11048659 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SlowCobra
Todd it is actually beneficial to have a temp swing of less than 5 degrees daily. When you keep it rock solid the corals only develop proteins and amino acids at that temperature range. In the event of a huge swing later they are unable to cope with the change properly usually leading to death. Personally I would lower the starting temperature to about 78 and let it rise and fall some.

As for heating the room. I think my 400w SE's run cooler than the 250 DE's I have. A huge difference, perhaps not, but enough to be able to touch the reflector with the 400's and move them without burning yourself. Can't say that for the 250's.

Not that I doubt what you are saying, but do you have some LIT to back that Todd? Would be an interesting read for sure.

All I know is the DE we had before did not give me heat issues???

 

[Poppy828]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11048701#post11048701 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ostrow
Whoa! I need to see that article, like, today ... before I do this swap I'm considering.

Sssshhhh.... don't tell Todd.

I am with you Joel.

Really sux for me if that's the case. I will have 3 ballasts to try and get rid of. Stupid Reefing Hobby

 

[SlowCobra]

There have been multiple threads found on here that have discussed this in depth. I never bookmarked them and I gave up on the search feature a while ago as being a non-paying member it only works for me at about 230am.

The oceans themselves have huge temp swings, sometimes as often as every 15 mins. I believe the subject is touched on in Bornemans book. I think that is the book I read with the information.

 

[ostrow]

The search thread's unreliability has no connection to paid or non-paid. As I paid member, I can assure you of that 100%.