HELP! All my tangs are DEAD!
- Thread starter dj synystr
- Start date
Drewcipher
Premium Member
I don't want to incite a riot, but how are you so sure that the bio load is fine. Sure maybe your equipement is overrated for your volume, but none of that would matter if the problem is O2 deprivation. Your equipement does not create oxygen, it simply inserts the air from your room into bubbles in your tank. If you have low O2 in your room air and many fish using what little is in the tank it will run out. If you are going to dismiss the more logical explanations, why post?
reefshadow
New member
Yes, that would make sense if it was indeed o2 depletion. Glad to hear the trigger is now ok- that would also point to o2 depletion (quick recovery). As your light cycle progresses throughout the day, you get algaes in the tank consuming co2 and increasing oxygen. this has a tendency to raise the o2 and ph in the "day" cycle, leading to lessened mortality/quick recovery in the "day".
Just out of curiosity, what are you using to measure your ph?
Agree with that- actually with that many large fish you have a shorter window for EVERYTHING. I'm not passing judgement, just stating my opinion from a husbandry point of view. That is alot of large, messy fish. 5 tangs, a trigger and a lion. big fish, big waste. Even the products of a fish's respiration add to the bioload.
I would suggest getting some ventilation in your house, crack a window or something, or you may be looking at more deaths by tomorrow morning. A water change might not be a bad idea either, as tests can be inaccurate and i'm not sure this doesn't have a direct link to a chem. problem.
dj synystr
New member
ok so how do you suggest i check the o2 levels in my house. please tell me. if you all insist i have low o2 in my house tell me how to check it. i breath fine, my dogs breath fine. and the to many fish senerio is gettign old. time and time again people have PROVEN that you can have more than one fish per 10 gallons as stated in most books. to many people on here follow the old books and ways to the t, not thinking that things have changed over years.
Drewcipher
Premium Member
Thanks reefshadow, you said it nicer than I did. I also was trying not to pass judgment, but don't think I did as well as you.
dj, I was not just asking about smoking, but bug spray, any furniture cleaning, etc...Are you sure no external chems were used?
dj, I was not just asking about smoking, but bug spray, any furniture cleaning, etc...Are you sure no external chems were used?
dj synystr
New member
i did a water change and all that yesterday. including vacuming out debris, replacing phosphate media, and kalk mix.
dj synystr
New member
yesir. i do the clenaing in my house. ilive alone.the chick on my couch doesnt touch any of my stuff when im not here. thats why im baffled. the only thing that changed was the water, and phosphate media. feeding, light cycle, equipment all the same as before.
reefshadow
New member
Gawd, dude, never mind. This is just ridiculous.
The real reason your tangs died is that the Great Mother Reef Godess called them home because they were such good fish.
You and your dogs can do with a lower o2 saturation. You are both highly adaptable. REEF FISH ARE NOT!!! You can go from Mexico City to the Dead Sea in one day and not die.
And as far as proving you can have a high bioload in a small volume of water, man you're proving it all over.
Case closed imo.
The real reason your tangs died is that the Great Mother Reef Godess called them home because they were such good fish.
You and your dogs can do with a lower o2 saturation. You are both highly adaptable. REEF FISH ARE NOT!!! You can go from Mexico City to the Dead Sea in one day and not die.
And as far as proving you can have a high bioload in a small volume of water, man you're proving it all over.
Case closed imo.
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6678987#post6678987 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by asnatlas
Rcarruth
To Reef Central
Well, thankya! Funny that my first post was so irate though.
Anyway dj synystr saying your bio-load is fine doesn't make it true. You're arguing with the books, the other forum members and basically every source of input we could possibly produce on this subject. I can't see that you have any justification for your stance on this issue other than the fact that you WANT to do it. Your desire for more fish isn't going to change the underlying ecological problem.
Ever hear the phrase "dilution is the solution to pollution"? It doesn't matter how powerful your filters are or what you put on a tank--there is still a point for every tank at which there are too many fish for that volume of water to support. Your filters will clean the water eventually but there is still a lot of traffic in nutrients, waste and necessary elements/chemicals going through there. To draw a really crude analogy, you might have the memory to handle the program but your bandwidth isn't high enough.
Here are my justifications on a "common sense" level. Every aquarium is a distortion of nature in some respects. It is simply impossible for most of us to recreate a decent facsimile of the ocean in our homes. However, the more we do to increase the quality of our representation, the more stable the tank will be and the better for the fish. The inverse is true also. The more our tank differs from the wild, the less stable it will be and consequently less safe for our livestock. The amount of livestock confined to a given area is one way in which the home aquarium is a poor substitute for the environment it is mimicking. Even lightly stocked aquariums usually stick more fish in a small space than would occur naturally. So, distorting your tank's representation of the ocean by putting several fish who travel MILES per day in the wild in a small space is an artificiality that is doomed to fail eventually.
I want more fish too. I want tangs and mandarins and wrasses and lionfish, oh my. However, I have to look at the tank I can afford and select the fish whose needs, temperaments, and waste outputs my tank can handle. That makes me feel better knowing I have "done right" by my fish and also knowing that I am not likely to lose costly livestock.
-Clark
Drewcipher
Premium Member
I agree with you that fish per gallon or inches of fish per gallon is an outdated method, but there is still a limit to what a tank can support. I am not going to tell you that you reached it, but it is a valid theory to your loss.
It seems that your water is good, assuming you ruled out external chemicals what else do you think it could be?
It seems that your water is good, assuming you ruled out external chemicals what else do you think it could be?
dj synystr
New member
all you do is give reason but no answers. i asked how to test o2 levels and you got nothing. i never said i was proving anything.
dj synystr
New member
well im guessing from what everyone has been saying it leads to o2 levels. i jsut dont see that doign it logically when nothing was changed, added, turned off, or on. it was just out of the blue from no were. ithey were swimmign and eating fine at 9pm when i feed them before the club and when i got home they werent looking to hot.
Drewcipher
Premium Member
dj, use google and search. You can find methods for testing air and aquarium levels of CO2.
dj synystr
New member
um ok but you cant go by full sizes man. damn i mean when was the last time you seen a 10" tang in a tank. all my fish were adults that died and all were under 5' each. the damsels are 3 inches for both, the DWARF lion fish is 3 inches , clown 3 inches. mandarin 3 inches, cardinals 3.5 inches so after you add ALL THAT UP you gett a whopping 3.75 feet for a 125 well established tank. no 6 feet!
dj synystr
New member
but isnt it 02 that i need to know?
Drewcipher
Premium Member
It does seem odd that it happened so fast, but I, as well as everyone else in this thread, think that O2 is the next step to eliminate as a cause. Now, keep in mind that now that you lost 5 tangs, the levels have probably gone up some, so don't get crazy putting fish back in. I would say test it weekly for a month to make sure it is reasonably stable. Maybe even test it right before the lights go on and again right before they go off. Once you have a stable baseline, if you must add fish, add them 1 at a time and redo the same test and see how your baseline is affected. You need to keep up a routine and keep all relevant factors as close as possible to get the most accurate results. This includes how long you leave doors and windows open to get fresh air if possible. The more that is the same the better results you will get.
DJ88©
Premium Member
I am going to try and put this all together for you in a way that you will understand how the overstocking and O2 levels that people are talking about come together.
overstocked tank = less O2 per fish
less O2 per fish + decreased O2 in your room = lowered O2 levels in your tank.
if O2 available in your tank < required O2 in your tank for fish to survive = dead fish due to O2 starvation
This is what people are trying to say.
You were probably walking a thin line between the amount of O2 your tank could supply the inhabitants and what your fish needed. If it gets to the point that your needs outstrip the supply you are across the line. Once you cross that line the fish that need the O2 the most or consume the most will start to die off. Hence all your Tang(larger fish) are dead.
Overstocking doesn't just mean it has to be with wastes produced and removal. It also has to do with the ability of your tank to meet the needs of the fish and inhabitants inside it.
Your tank didn't meet those needs and your fish died.
This happens a lot when you don't have a regular source of fresh air to a tank. If I seal my place up tight for day I can watch my pH drop. Not just a little. This is due to increase CO2. And guess what. Lack of O2.
do you get it now. your tank was unable to meet the needs of the fish you placed in it. It was overstocked. it may have been able to handle the bioload, but it couldn't give what the fish needed most. To breathe.
overstocked tank = less O2 per fish
less O2 per fish + decreased O2 in your room = lowered O2 levels in your tank.
if O2 available in your tank < required O2 in your tank for fish to survive = dead fish due to O2 starvation
This is what people are trying to say.
You were probably walking a thin line between the amount of O2 your tank could supply the inhabitants and what your fish needed. If it gets to the point that your needs outstrip the supply you are across the line. Once you cross that line the fish that need the O2 the most or consume the most will start to die off. Hence all your Tang(larger fish) are dead.
Overstocking doesn't just mean it has to be with wastes produced and removal. It also has to do with the ability of your tank to meet the needs of the fish and inhabitants inside it.
Your tank didn't meet those needs and your fish died.
This happens a lot when you don't have a regular source of fresh air to a tank. If I seal my place up tight for day I can watch my pH drop. Not just a little. This is due to increase CO2. And guess what. Lack of O2.
do you get it now. your tank was unable to meet the needs of the fish you placed in it. It was overstocked. it may have been able to handle the bioload, but it couldn't give what the fish needed most. To breathe.
