Help. Clean slate, macro tank.

[Karliah]

Looking to start a macro dominated tank, my first.
Looking for advise on the best "beginner" macros. Stuff I don't need to do any sort of dosing or anything for (with the exception of maybe calcium loving macros since my water is already loaded with it)
Not really concerned with the biotope approach, just stuff that looks good. Maybe your experiences with different macros and they're pros and cons?
Also your opinion on where to purchase (or to NOT purchase) them from would be great. Got burned on a clump of red bush gracilaria that infested my other tank with hydroids (also my fault for not QTing it though)
Any they don't HAVE to be macros, any saltwater plant type looking thing that you would suggest is great.
Thanks in advance!

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Great! Macros are great. I love how they move in the current. I'm really kind of bored by reef tanks these days.

It would be helpful to know a little about your tank setup.

For online macro venders, I like live-plants.com. For seagrasses, Floridapets.com. Plus, most online fish stores sell macros these days.

As for advise, I'm no expert, but I can tell you my experience. Hopefully it's helpful!

I started my macro and seagrass tank just under a year ago. I stocked it with plants right from the start, which is a fresh water planting strategy. The idea is to get the plants in there, sucking up nutrients, before micro algae can take hold. I added no fish at this time, which was good for the seagrasses, but not for the macros. Seagrasses need pristine water like corals. Macros need a little dirtier water.

So I guess I would advise you not to invest too much in macros until you get some fish, and the tank has cycled and your water chemistry settles down. I highly recommend Cerith snails-like an army of them. They reproduce in your tank and will help keep micro algae from covering your macros. But I don't think you can skip the 'algae phase'. Just get through it, put those snails to work, and then, when things settle down, start stocking macros.

Mine gradually broke down, disintegrated and some just disappeared. Strangely, once conditions were "right", they came back! And best of all, they were attached to rocks, etc.

If I were to do it all again, I would focus on seagrasses or macros-not both, in the earlier phase of the tank. Their needs are just too different.

Hope this helps. Good luck!

 

[Karliah]

Thanks!
As for my "set up" so far it's not set up. I was wanting a plan in mind before I start it. I do know that I want a bluestripe pipefish, and possibly (more than likely) another smaller calm fish, as I want the pipe to be the centerpiece. I was hoping to have it all full of macros before I got the pipe, but it sounds like that's not a good idea... Unless I figure out what other little fish I want and put it in there.
The cerith snails don't eat the macros?
And I'll be putting live rock in there, in addition to whatever comes on it.
What macros do you keep? Are there any you wish you wouldn't have gotten or wouldn't recommend? Which ones would you recommend?

 

[Michael Hoaster]

My pleasure!

So you really meant clean slate! No tank, lights, pumps, OK!

The bluestripe pipefish is beautiful, and you want to house it in a nice macro tank. You could build a nice 'slow fish' community around it, or just do a single species tank.

You could start up the tank with some temp fish like damsels and/or mollies, to get through cycling and get your macros going. Then bring in the star of the show after.

Cerith snails don't eat macro, just micro algae and diatoms. They do a much more thorough job of cleaning off your macros than you could do yourself.

Again, I'm no macro expert, so hopefully someone else will chime in.

As for specific recommendations, I'd just pick out the ones you like the look of and give them a shot. For reds, gracilia did pretty well for me, and greens, you've got several caulerpas to choose from. I don't have have any I'd advise against. There's just not a lot of good, solid info on these plants out there yet, so it's a bit of a crapshoot. Try googling plants you like, and see what you can find out.

You might want to go ahead and get the tank started with rocks and sand, etc., while you research your plants.

 

[ichthyogeek]

The two types of macroalgae I've ever kept (and loved)
Caulerpa prolifera: No matter whatever anybody tells you about Caulerpa species in general, ignore them when it comes to this beauty. It grows relatively fast in low-mid lighting and low currents. It doesn't really require a lot of fertilizing either if you're feeding heavily. A 1 inch bed of substrate is required, as this algae does not like rocks.

Gracilaria sp. "Red Ogo": I have a current love/hate relationship with this algae. I love it's bushy red look when it's kept properly trimmed. But if you let it grow too large, it starts to fragment and reproduce over the rocks everywhere. Tank water must be very clean, or else the algae quickly clogs with microalgae and detritus (think Cabomba if you come from freshwater planted tanks). This algae will not grow on sand, but loves to spread on rocks and other hard surfaces. Reproduction rate is very, very rapid. At one point, I was harvesting at least a quarter pound a week from the tank to take to my LFS for trade-in. Then, it suddenly disappeared when I added in some Caulerpa.

Substrate wise, have you tried making an enclosed "bay", with live rock surrounding the sides and back of the tank, with an open section inside? This allows for decent anchoring points for rock and sand-loving macros. I really want to use Miracle Mud if I ever make a macro-only tank, but aragonite sand worked fine for Caulerpa prolifera, as long as I didn't vacuum the sand.

I can help more on the fish part really. However, since I don't know how big the tank is, I can't really give any suggestions. Check out fusedjaw.com for pipefish info. I'd suggest a Wetmorella wrasse to contrast with the pipefish. Both are really shy fish that require a quite peaceful tank, and both can stay in relatively small tanks. However, I'd caution at least a 20 gallon for housing a wrasse and a pipefish. Feeding would be predominantly live foods, mostly brine shrimp and nauplii until you could wean them both onto frozen foods like frozen brine, mysis, and copepods like cyclop-eeze and calanus.

 

[Karliah]

My pleasure!

So you really meant clean slate! No tank, lights, pumps, OK!

The bluestripe pipefish is beautiful, and you want to house it in a nice macro tank. You could build a nice 'slow fish' community around it, or just do a single species tank.

You could start up the tank with some temp fish like damsels and/or mollies, to get through cycling and get your macros going. Then bring in the star of the show after.

Cerith snails don't eat macro, just micro algae and diatoms. They do a much more thorough job of cleaning off your macros than you could do yourself.

Again, I'm no macro expert, so hopefully someone else will chime in.

As for specific recommendations, I'd just pick out the ones you like the look of and give them a shot. For reds, gracilia did pretty well for me, and greens, you've got several caulerpas to choose from. I don't have have any I'd advise against. There's just not a lot of good, solid info on these plants out there yet, so it's a bit of a crapshoot. Try googling plants you like, and see what you can find out.

You might want to go ahead and get the tank started with rocks and sand, etc., while you research your plants.

The two types of macroalgae I've ever kept (and loved)
Caulerpa prolifera: No matter whatever anybody tells you about Caulerpa species in general, ignore them when it comes to this beauty. It grows relatively fast in low-mid lighting and low currents. It doesn't really require a lot of fertilizing either if you're feeding heavily. A 1 inch bed of substrate is required, as this algae does not like rocks.

Gracilaria sp. "Red Ogo": I have a current love/hate relationship with this algae. I love it's bushy red look when it's kept properly trimmed. But if you let it grow too large, it starts to fragment and reproduce over the rocks everywhere. Tank water must be very clean, or else the algae quickly clogs with microalgae and detritus (think Cabomba if you come from freshwater planted tanks). This algae will not grow on sand, but loves to spread on rocks and other hard surfaces. Reproduction rate is very, very rapid. At one point, I was harvesting at least a quarter pound a week from the tank to take to my LFS for trade-in. Then, it suddenly disappeared when I added in some Caulerpa.

Substrate wise, have you tried making an enclosed "bay", with live rock surrounding the sides and back of the tank, with an open section inside? This allows for decent anchoring points for rock and sand-loving macros. I really want to use Miracle Mud if I ever make a macro-only tank, but aragonite sand worked fine for Caulerpa prolifera, as long as I didn't vacuum the sand.

I can help more on the fish part really. However, since I don't know how big the tank is, I can't really give any suggestions. Check out fusedjaw.com for pipefish info. I'd suggest a Wetmorella wrasse to contrast with the pipefish. Both are really shy fish that require a quite peaceful tank, and both can stay in relatively small tanks. However, I'd caution at least a 20 gallon for housing a wrasse and a pipefish. Feeding would be predominantly live foods, mostly brine shrimp and nauplii until you could wean them both onto frozen foods like frozen brine, mysis, and copepods like cyclop-eeze and calanus.

Thanks to the both of you!
Yes, it's as clean a slate as it can be.
My live rock is supposed to be getting here on the 13th or 14th, so depending on how much it is and the size of the pieces, I'll then choose a tank to put it in as I have several different sizes laying around.
That's interesting about the Caulerpa, I was not planning on letting any form of that stuff in my tank, but will probably reconsider now.
I love the look of this stuff:

(not my photo)
Is that a type of Caulerpa?

 

[ichthyogeek]

yup! Caulerpa prolifera, the best macroalgae I've ever known!

 

[Karliah]

I'll look into it!
So I just thought about it, I have a purple firefish that's being bullied by my clowns in my main tank. It's to the point where he hides and won't even come out for food. I haven't seen him in days and I'm not even sure he's alive. But if he is, do you think he'd work with the pipefish? I'll try to research it, but just wanted to see what you guys thought.

 

[Michael Hoaster]

In the long run, probably not. The firefish will outcompete the pipefish at feeding time. You want slow fish, like gumdrop gobies, dragonets, seahorses and other pipefish.

You could probably make it work for a little while, while you find a new home for him.

 

[Karliah]

Darn, alright. I was hoping that'd work out perfect, but kinda had that feeling too.

 

[ichthyogeek]

To provide a conflicting opinion: maybe.

Firefish are relatively shy fish. However, while the pipefish is a benthic carnivore, the firefish is more of a pelagic carnivore. Basically, the pods that your pipefish eats are safe as long as they don't stray into the water column. Additionally, you could load the firefish up on pellets before you feed the pipefish, so the firefish would eat less of the pipefish' food. If you're just broadcast feeding the tank mysis, I wouldn't suggest it, but given the right conditions, I think it could work out.

I'd have to disagree on the dragonet though. Both pipefish and dragonets are benthic carnivores, so both compete for the same foods. Since both are hard to get to feed on prepared foods, I can see this turning into a disaster.

FusedJaw's got a list of fish that are compatible with syngnathids, and firefish are some of the calmer species.

Michael: what are gumdrop gobies? I've never heard of those before.

 

[Karliah]

I'll check out Tami's list.
As for the gumdrops, I had no idea what those were either, but googled them and they're kinda cute. Just never heard of them before, so not sure how easy they are to keep.

 

[vlangel]

I have a seahorse tank with macros and some of my favorites are dragon's breath and red grape caulerpa. Both were slow to get established but now are growing very well yet not invasive. The dragon's breath is especially pretty as it develops orange tips in contrast to the bright red.

 

[Karliah]

Help. Clean slate, macro tank.

I have a seahorse tank with macros and some of my favorites are dragon's breath and red grape caulerpa. Both were slow to get established but now are growing very well yet not invasive. The dragon's breath is especially pretty as it develops orange tips in contrast to the bright red.

Where did you get your dragon's breath? Only place I can seem to find it is just on ebay from someones personal tank, and that's how I got hydroids in my main tank -.- Again, it's still my fault for not QTing it, but I'd rather just get it from a "reputable" place or at least someone that can verify they have no pests.