Help- Corals Slowly die

Reefer PT

New member
I'm a bit over a year and a half back into the hobby and I must say things are much harder this time around. First time I had a reef set-up was circa 2000 where I had a 180 with a berlin set-up, 3 175w 14k MH's and 4 48" VHO actinics and I had SPS,LPS and a 18" diameter hetractus anemone. Fish were healthy, Corals grew to the point of making me some money. Only supplements was Kalk and occasional epsom salts and baking soda. I never tested anything but Ca and Alk.
Now I have a 93 gal cube at my office and have had quite an issue with corals. I have been on this forum and others, pouring over advice and trying different things. First I thought It was poor Water quality and began carbon dosing and chasing numbers, added carbon and GFO, Polyfilters, Ceramic media, filter socks, upgraded skimmer and did daily water changes. Then I was advised that I was starving the tank so I removed carbon dosing, filter socks, dropped back to bimonthy WC's fed 4x per day and let nutients come up a bit. Still No luck.
So as of April this year I began focusing on acquiring what I need to set up a 120 at home because I apparently like to make my life difficult. And I took an attitude with my office tank of "what ever lives, lives, whatever doesn't, oh well" and I was not going to buy another coral until I figure it out. And what I have seen is all LPS/SPS is gone, Paly/Zoa's are retracted and diminishing and the rest is all soft corals/shrooms which are alive but not growing.
I know everybody loves numbers so here is the averages of my log over the past 5 months
No3- 1ppm (red sea)
PO4 - 0.02 (hanna)
Ca - 450 (hanna)
Alk - 10 (red sea)
PH 8-8.2 (APEX)
Temp 78
MG 1300
SG 1.025
Sorry for the rant, now on to the question. I have observed that everything left standing in the tank is lower light corals. Lighting has been the only thing that has been constant from day one and I assumed because I have an g2 ecotech radion over the tank that this was enough light. Could this not be the case? The light is set on a parabolic curve from 0-100% intensity. 11 hour on, 20k to start the day shifting to 14 k at midday then shift back to 20k at evening. The light is 12 inches off the water to get a full 30" spread.
When I think back to my old set up the tank seemed much brighter but I have heard countless warnings on "don't run the radions full throttle or you'll burn everthing" so I figured the light must be bright enough.
Do I change the program? Lower the light? get another one? ditch it and go to t5/MH?
Thanks for any insight
Dave
 
You posted the averages of your params over the last 5 months, are there any swings going on or does everything stay pretty stable? How is flow in the tank? Is it possible there are any pests harming the corals?
 
No major Swings that have been detected. Flow is from a Ecotech MP40 so everything sways really nice. I had some flatworms which I did the flatworm exit treatment and have not seen one since.
To add one more thing about the light.. even though they say 120 watts for the fixture the approx watts listed for 14k at 100% is just over 70watts. Is that low? I'm thinking about getting a par meter and checking it out, but then again to spend $300 to find out you need to spend $600 more seems funny.
 
I wonder for $250 if its not worth upgrading Radion to gen 3 pro. Scary that this seems reasonable. Anyone else upgrade?
 
I would (upgrade to a Radion G3 Pro). To give you a comparison, I use a Radion G3 Pro over a 24x24x20 cube (50g CADlights), typically run on about 65% max, 12K. The light is about 12" over the water, and I would say it's barely enough. Certain SPS do well about 1/2 way up the water column, and LPS at the sand do well (acans, blastomussa, turbinaria).

So my guess is with a 30"x30" footprint and a G2 Radion, you're very much under-lighting your corals.

BTW - I'm old school (or just old, depending on who you ask ;)), so I've made a transition from MH and VHO/T5HO to LED. This is my opinion, take it as such. If you are having issues with a tank, I'd very strongly consider going back to the lighting that you know and trust. Don't get me wrong, I do think that LED lighting works to grow SPS if you have fixtures that have a significant UV/Violet output, and you're willing to put the $$$ in to get sufficient fixtures to cover the are of the tank. IMO, this limits choices to the higher end fixtures like the Radions, Kessils, Orphek Atlantik, AI Hydra 52s, etc., and you need about 1-1/2 times the number of fixtures to cover the tank area than is typically stated in the manufacturer's literature.

But to me, the 30" x 30" size of your 93 is the absolute perfect application for a Hamilton Cebu Sun with a 250w Radium and 4 24" T5HOs. Yes, it'll use more power than 2 Radion G3 Pros, but it'll take a lot of watts to make up for the difference in price.
 
So, BRS has a 400 watt cebu sun for $450 and a 250 watt for $499, or do I spend $250 on the radion upgrade. I like the sleek looks and features of the radion but if it doesn't do the job then I'll have to upgrade again anyways. On my 120 that I'm planing I have 4-48" T5's and 2 reefbreeders LED's purchased may even add a couple more T5's. I will never have a open top tank again, Lighting is so much more expensive when you need to worry about what the fixture "looks like" especially in a public waiting room area. For now I have changed to the "high growth" program and went to 100% at 14k and will see if that makes a difference
Thanks
Dave
 
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Is you refractometer calibrated with 35 point solution or ro water? My issue was with the calibration being off while using to water instead and my salinity wound up being too low, brought it back up and everything is great.
 
Well, as stated in my opinion you will need 2 Radion G3 Pros to light your 93 cube for SPS growth. So that would be $250 for the upgrade, plus another $675 or so for another one (they're on sale until the 31st).

So switching to a Cebu sun will be considerably cheaper - you can then decide whether to upgrade the G2 and use it on your home tank, or simply sell it.
 
You are in a very well populated area, right? Any local clubs or LFS that might have a PAR meter you can barrow? I loan mine out to local club members all the time.

You gave the Kelvin level of your light, but that really isn't as important as the power level you are running. I had a Radion over a shallow 24 x 24 frag tank and I ran it at 60% for 8 hours a day. I'm worried you are running it at 100% and for how long? Stony corals like light, but not too much light. Softy corals can deal with less light, but they might be able to better withstand too much light as well? I never tried it, but I did push my leds to the point I bleached a montipora and the zoas and mushrooms looked perfectly happy. Maybe somebody else would know for sure.
 
I'll look to see if anyone has a PAR meter. As for the Radion being 100%, at 14k only the blues are 100% the other colors are at about 40% so overall the fixture is at about 65% brightness. I have been running blues up to 100% but it was for a short time. now I just extended the duration of max blue output.
 
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