I priced all the tank manufactuters I could find and I have decided to go with glass cages. They are no help on tank design so I need your help. It will be a 28 inch square with a center overflow. Low iron all the way around. My problem is with overflow design. I have to be very specific about the size of the overflow and even the size of the holes drilled. I want it to be large enough to house a durso and two returns and a closed loop would be nice but I think that would require going too big for this size tank. (~64 gallons minus overflow volume). How big is a durso? I wouldnt mind having a hole also for electrical wires to go through for power heads if the closed loop would require making the overflow too big and even for the lights to be wired through the center. looks like the bottom of the overflow will be swiss cheesed. Ok, lets here some suggestions. I'm going to try and order this week.
Help designing tank
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gflat65
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There are som calculators on RC for figuring out how much 'teeth' area you need for any given gph turnover rate (along with the size hole for drain). FWIW, in AGA RR, the overflows are about 10" x 6" (on a 125 with dual overflows). The 'teeth' area is not all the way around that. The drain hole is 1" and returns are 3/4" (one each per overflow). I don't recommend trying to run closed loop through the overflow. That complicates things and require larger and larger overflows. Usually, the CL holes are drill in the back or bottom of the tank (Angela did bottom, but it makes me nervous
). My store bought durso is ~ 3-3.5" outside edge to outside edge. As for wiring through the tank, you would be looking at some large unsightly holes (have to get the plug through them), and making sure they are sealed/sound with something while having water pressure on then would further complicate things. It seem like 15" of teeth (on a GC overflow, the whole area is open for 'teeth' area, so just add the three linear sides together of the overflow) and a 1 1/4" drain is capable of ~1300 gph (but I could be remembering incorrectly). That would be an awful lot of flow through the overflows and would create some noise, though (for a 64 gallon tank). HTH...
). My store bought durso is ~ 3-3.5" outside edge to outside edge. As for wiring through the tank, you would be looking at some large unsightly holes (have to get the plug through them), and making sure they are sealed/sound with something while having water pressure on then would further complicate things. It seem like 15" of teeth (on a GC overflow, the whole area is open for 'teeth' area, so just add the three linear sides together of the overflow) and a 1 1/4" drain is capable of ~1300 gph (but I could be remembering incorrectly). That would be an awful lot of flow through the overflows and would create some noise, though (for a 64 gallon tank). HTH...Angela Short
New member
Talk about swiss cheese 
13 holes in that puppy! What a great project you are planning! True, bottom bulkheads are scarry because if one fails it would drain the entire tank but has anyone ever had one "blow out" and gush water everywhere? If a bulkhead leaks it ussually starts as a slow drip for some reason. I also check all mine on a regular basis just because I do still worry about the what ifs!I had a 80 gallon for 3 years drilled in the bottom with no problems. Just get the Sch. 80 bulkheads and be sure they are snug and you should be fine. I have some great ideas for you on flow and aquascapping this thing. I will have to load some more pics first....
I may have to get back later tonight if kidds start crying and its almost there time to start fighting! :lol:
13 holes in that puppy! What a great project you are planning! True, bottom bulkheads are scarry because if one fails it would drain the entire tank but has anyone ever had one "blow out" and gush water everywhere? If a bulkhead leaks it ussually starts as a slow drip for some reason. I also check all mine on a regular basis just because I do still worry about the what ifs!
I had a 80 gallon for 3 years drilled in the bottom with no problems. Just get the Sch. 80 bulkheads and be sure they are snug and you should be fine. I have some great ideas for you on flow and aquascapping this thing. I will have to load some more pics first....I may have to get back later tonight if kidds start crying and its almost there time to start fighting! :lol:
Angela Short
New member
I will go ahead and say I am not pleased at all with my overflows from GC's. I actually took a dremel to them last weekend which was kinda scary useing power tools in a full tank! They had just taken a saw and cut slices every 1" or so only the thickness of a blade and my duel 1.5" overflows couldn't even handle 1,600 GPH without going over them. Thats not including my GPH loss from head pressure! I cut 2 1" sections out on both overflows and its running much smoother now! It was so bad the water was up into the euro bracing on the tank. In other words, a normal tank rim without the glass top built in about 3" wide around the parmeter would have overflowed with just about 1,200 GPH. The water is still touching the top glass in one corner a little but 100% better than it was. So I would talk to them about bigger grooves in the overflow or mod it before you install it yourself if they can't/will not.
Now on flow, I personally am not 100% happy with my closed loop but that was poor planning on my part which I can fix when I ever tear out my reef to move it. For the money I have tighed up in it I could have gotten 2 tunze and been just as happy. But this is about your tank... More in a min...
Now on flow, I personally am not 100% happy with my closed loop but that was poor planning on my part which I can fix when I ever tear out my reef to move it. For the money I have tighed up in it I could have gotten 2 tunze and been just as happy. But this is about your tank... More in a min...
The main reason that I would like to be able to run wires through the center is so I can have a 4 sided tank that I can walk all the way around with no cords or hoses to block the view. Closed loop would just clean up the view even more from the lack of power heads in the tank. It is looking like I would need a larger tank to accomodate the size overflow I would need to do all of this. Talk about engineering things in reverse
Angela Short
New member
I was thinking larger tank also. My overflow is 7"x10" with a 1.5" drain and a 1" return split 2 ways with loc line. I was wondering if it HAD to be that small because with the overflow taking up so much room it would be nice to have a larger tank. Besides, we always feel the need to go bigger. Just look at me from a 10 to a 270 in 3 years :lol:
I would go with a bigger cube if at all possiable and do the same overflow size pipes I have. Do a cube shaped overflow to keep in style with the tank so you will be making it a 10 x 10 but I will look to see if it could be skinnied up to a 8 X 8 but I was thinking the bulkheads will not fit any smaller. But then again if they drilled them caddy corner in the box, not side by side, you may get a tighter box. Depending on how big of a pump your overflow could handle you could split the return 2 or 4 ways with loc line but the higher flow the higher chance of noise and microbubbles making it back up since the sump will be short also to fit under the tank. Hmmm, That said, I would concider just doing a slower turnover which many people like. You can go with smaller overflow plumbing that way.
I personally would do this is a 3rd hole will fit in the overflow. Put your drain for the closed loop in the overflow. You would have to get a hole drilled in the side of the overflow and acrylic cover to do this. Add a bulkhead and a 90 and it wouldn't be any different than someone having the drain going through a back wall. Then put all 4 returns on all 4 corners up through the bottom like my tank showes. You can hide the returns very easy with rockwork. You could go with a OM for dynamic flow but in the mean time a regular pump split with a 4way splitter will work. Or a 2 way squirt and slpit it using a bigger pump would give you lots of back and forth flow. OM also has thease neat things called revolutions that can give you dynamic flow but not so sure if you could mount them upside down with a feed from the bottom of the tank. Lots of options really. You may even be able to get away with only drilling 2 bottom corners since it will be a smaller cube but the best long term flexiability would be if all 4 corners were drilled.
You could also just get another small hole drilled in the overflow that a bulkhead will fit and run the PH cords up through it. Just tie a few ropes through the pipe you would rig to go above the water level to pull the cords the cords through and just have power heads in the tank hooked to the overflow. Not near as pretty but can be done for $35 as opposed to $210. ($20 a hole x 6 plus $15 for each bulkhead) But if this is a tank you plan on keeping forever you may want to go with the more expensive route and just cap off the holes till you can afford to get the closed loop pump and just Plug the side hole on the overflow and you could still run your cordes down the return hole like I mentioned till money was not as much of a factor.
I sucked it up and ordered the extra tall even though the price jumped hundreds of dollars and I am very glad I did now. This is my forever tank and I wanted the things I couldn't go back and change the way I wanted from the start. Eating ramen noodles wasn't so bad for that month! :lol: You can always upgrade lights,skimmers,pumps down the road the way I see it as long as your tank is the way you want it to build from. Gives you time to wait on that awsome super sale some folks have getting out to get a great deal on rock and harware also! OK now my kid is late to school, gotta run!
I would go with a bigger cube if at all possiable and do the same overflow size pipes I have. Do a cube shaped overflow to keep in style with the tank so you will be making it a 10 x 10 but I will look to see if it could be skinnied up to a 8 X 8 but I was thinking the bulkheads will not fit any smaller. But then again if they drilled them caddy corner in the box, not side by side, you may get a tighter box. Depending on how big of a pump your overflow could handle you could split the return 2 or 4 ways with loc line but the higher flow the higher chance of noise and microbubbles making it back up since the sump will be short also to fit under the tank. Hmmm, That said, I would concider just doing a slower turnover which many people like. You can go with smaller overflow plumbing that way.
I personally would do this is a 3rd hole will fit in the overflow. Put your drain for the closed loop in the overflow. You would have to get a hole drilled in the side of the overflow and acrylic cover to do this. Add a bulkhead and a 90 and it wouldn't be any different than someone having the drain going through a back wall. Then put all 4 returns on all 4 corners up through the bottom like my tank showes. You can hide the returns very easy with rockwork. You could go with a OM for dynamic flow but in the mean time a regular pump split with a 4way splitter will work. Or a 2 way squirt and slpit it using a bigger pump would give you lots of back and forth flow. OM also has thease neat things called revolutions that can give you dynamic flow but not so sure if you could mount them upside down with a feed from the bottom of the tank. Lots of options really. You may even be able to get away with only drilling 2 bottom corners since it will be a smaller cube but the best long term flexiability would be if all 4 corners were drilled.
You could also just get another small hole drilled in the overflow that a bulkhead will fit and run the PH cords up through it. Just tie a few ropes through the pipe you would rig to go above the water level to pull the cords the cords through and just have power heads in the tank hooked to the overflow. Not near as pretty but can be done for $35 as opposed to $210. ($20 a hole x 6 plus $15 for each bulkhead) But if this is a tank you plan on keeping forever you may want to go with the more expensive route and just cap off the holes till you can afford to get the closed loop pump and just Plug the side hole on the overflow and you could still run your cordes down the return hole like I mentioned till money was not as much of a factor.
I sucked it up and ordered the extra tall even though the price jumped hundreds of dollars and I am very glad I did now. This is my forever tank and I wanted the things I couldn't go back and change the way I wanted from the start. Eating ramen noodles wasn't so bad for that month! :lol: You can always upgrade lights,skimmers,pumps down the road the way I see it as long as your tank is the way you want it to build from. Gives you time to wait on that awsome super sale some folks have getting out to get a great deal on rock and harware also! OK now my kid is late to school, gotta run!
Mdwannabe
New member
Angela said: "This is my forever tank and I wanted the things I couldn't go back and change the way I wanted from the start."
Come on Angela; a forever tank?, those just don't exist
My last start-up, was my last tank, at least that's what I told Lisa, but now that 4 additional linear feet of available wall space is looking interesting. It would only double my 170, that's not so much! At least that's what I expect YOU to tell HER when I suggest it!
If it helps, she ask's about you and the kid's all the time. Please tell me that helps you provide my required input.
Rick
Come on Angela; a forever tank?, those just don't exist
My last start-up, was my last tank, at least that's what I told Lisa, but now that 4 additional linear feet of available wall space is looking interesting. It would only double my 170, that's not so much! At least that's what I expect YOU to tell HER when I suggest it!
If it helps, she ask's about you and the kid's all the time. Please tell me that helps you provide my required input.
Rick
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