HELP fish on side with ich

[JJIM]

My fish have ich after much contention (in my head). I became obvious last night when I came home from work and my two small juvenile fish (long nose butterfly and cole tang) had white spots all over. Today when I came home from work they are now on their sides breathing very rapidly? I did a 25% water change last night then treated with Cupermine as prescribed (2 drops per gallon). The dosage is now at about .20 after a recent test.

What to do now?

I plan to do another water change 20%, but then what?

1. Only water change and don't add new copper.

2. Freshwater dip for a few minutes to give fish relief, or will this only make the stress worse and possible kill the fish? Make sure temp and pH is close of course.

3. Water change and freshwater dip?

4. Do the water change as planned and add more copper to bring the level up higher >.30-.50 mg/L?

5. Leave the tank as is and do nothing, not even the water change?

Please advise... thanks!

 

[sandwi54]

There is no need for water changes unless the parameters are off.

Usually, when the fish lay down, it's almost always because they have advanced bacterial infections (either external or internals) from massive ich attacks. Unfortunately, most of the time it's already too late, but I would at least still apply maracyn-2 to try to save them.

Freshwater dip doesn't do anything for ich since they are embedded too deep under the skin. It however has an effect on velvet or brooklynella for temporary relief.

At this point, I would just raise copper to around 0.4ppm, and apply maracyn-2 at the same time. There's really not much you can do other than this.

 

[sandwi54]

Also, it sounds like the kole tang and long nose butterfly are in a 28g nano? That's way too small of a tank for them, especially when it's packed with 40lbs of sand and 55lbs of rock. I'd suggest you look for a proper home for them after treating them.

 

[JJIM]

No, they are currently in my 55 gallon.

 

[JJIM]

There is no need for water changes unless the parameters are off.

Usually, when the fish lay down, it's almost always because they have advanced bacterial infections (either external or internals) from massive ich attacks. Unfortunately, most of the time it's already too late, but I would at least still apply maracyn-2 to try to save them.

Freshwater dip doesn't do anything for ich since they are embedded too deep under the skin. It however has an effect on velvet or brooklynella for temporary relief.

At this point, I would just raise copper to around 0.4ppm, and apply maracyn-2 at the same time. There's really not much you can do other than this.

Didn't have time to respond appropriately last time. But these fish are currently in a 55 gallon QT tank that will be converted into a FOWLR after I finish my treatment cycle. Currently I have plastic plants and PVC in the tank for hiding and safety. Nothing in the tank that will retain the chemicals. I thought you should know where I am going with this. Yes, the 55 may be a bit small now but as the fish get larger (2-3 inches now) I will likely give these fish to a friend or upgrade to a much larger tank as I once had many years ago (150 gal.). Either way I will house them appropriately as I have done much reading and been in the hobby for about 13 years with gaps (still learning all the time though).

I really appreciate your prompt reply to my dire problem. I have done as you noted with the M II and bringing up the Cupermine to around .4. With a flame angel in the tank i want to go a bit slower and tread lightly with the two fish that are gasping for air as it is. I am a novice when it comes to disease and therefore I greatly value the expertise found here in this forum. Part of my problem was the misdiagnosis when I originally thought some of my fish had Brook due to the clown passing overnight and not seeing any small white spots, as noted yesterday. Rapid breathing was present with some skin leisions led me to this wrong conclusion. But when the ich showed it's head finally, the two fish were literally littered with these spots.

 

[Sk8r]

Oxygenate the tank. And watch your evaporation: that can concentrate the cupramine and salt. Draw a fill line on the tank with grease pencil or tape.
Oxygenation, absolutely. If these fish have ich in their gills, and are in a small, it's a double problem. Use eggcrate lighting grid to separate the fish from the bubble stream. Being in bubbles is not good.

 

[JJIM]

Two questions

1. When the Cupermine is at a therapeutic level > .30 what happens to the parasite (ich). Does it start to die in the water column, or does it simply become more voracious and look for a host to embed deeply into the skin? I ask this because the two fish I noted yesterday died, as you eluded to since it was far advanced and secondary infection likely set in. I really want to save the other fish in the aquarium and I don't want more to succumb to this deadly killer. This is my first experience with an advanced stage where I felt it had gone beyond control. Also since there are stages in this disease, what happens after the parasite goes into the stage (forget name) where they drop off the fish and multiply in greater numbers when copper is present?

2. I often hear of the lighting grid and I picked one up. How does one go about cutting this stuff? I would seem that getting a nice cut without edges would be hard to come by?

Thanks again guys for your support!

 

[Triton_Z]

Copper and other chemical methods kill the free-swimming stage (tomites/theronts) of ich's lifecycle. The problem with copper is it is also detrimental to the fish's immune system and can be toxic. Your description of the previous behavior and condition of your fish suggest the infestation was too far along and they likely died from secondary infections.

Check out this brief post Steve (snorvich) made on the lifecycle of cryptocaryon irritans.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1992196

For more detail and the variety of treatments available, see these Reefkeeping articles:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-10/sp/feature/index.php

I cut the light baffle/grids you buy from the home improvement stores with wire cutters or hd shears. You can file or sand down the sharp edges.