Help frags diying

[Aquariumjim]

This is my first post (hope this is the correct place etc)

Ok so I have a 350L Red Sea reefer. It was a FOWLR tank and I have recently decided to try and keep coral.

I got a few leathers and they were doing fine so decided to get something a little more colourful I got the following frags pocilapora, torch, monty, candy cane.

The pocilapora is completely white now, the edges of the monty are going pale and the candy cane died back to just a couple of heads still alive but really receded.

My water parameters are:

SG: 1.026
NO3: 0.25
PO4: 0.06
CAL: 500
DKH: 8.2
MAG: 1440 (I know this is high)

From what I read the Mag is unlikely to cause it. Any ideas what is off?
It's driving me mad :headwally:

Any help is greatly appreciated!

 

[Uncle99]

For how long have these parameters been stable?
What lighting are you using?

 

[Aquariumjim]

Hey uncle99 thanks for replying.
Lighting is a radio xr15 on the standard program. When I only had fish I didn’t test calcium etc just nitrates and phosphates so don’t have long term figures. But I tested before coral then brought the numbers up slightly (mag was low and salt was 1.024) but since coral has been in I had a wobble in dkh down then back up (think this was my phosphate remover I changed out) and I dosed mag to bring from 1185 - 1440 in pretty much one dosing of 50g of power mixed with RO (I got the dosing wrong). Everything looked ok during this though and a week or so after this is when I saw problems. Think any of those things could cause it?

 

[Uncle99]

So first lighting. This is of course is a great light IMO, and appropriate for any corals.
Is there just one for 350L? I would think 2 or three and likely you have, otherwise not enough light.

These lights can emit huge PAR and it is very easy to kill with too much light, rather than to little. As long as you start new corals low and bring them up slowly, this is not the cause.

Now I read you post in regards to phosphate removal, GFO can quickly strip all phosphate, and 0 is not a good number for corals. I shoot for nitrate 3-5ppm and phosphate at .02-.05 so corals have food. This could be suspect. Death by starvation...

I read your post in regards to up/down Alk, yup that's not a good thing, it is important that this stay stable. So this could be suspect.

If I was to offer any advice, stability and consistency of all the parameters is the key!

Since I did this about 24 months ago now, each and every coral I bought, thrived immediately as it went in (and I have about 60, mostly hand size LPS, SPS, some softies.

I was not as successful in the past when I did not actually know what the parameters were, many corals would go in, then just melt away over time. When putting them in, they seemed to take forever to extend.

I have a test kit for all the major elements and I still test weekly to ensure no "wobble".

You do report your numbers, but might indicate that the stability could be better.

I use a excel worksheet to record each of the 8 parameters weekly, I manage nitrates and phosphate ranges with NoPox, dose daily, CA, ALK and MG ( because I know the consumption rate) and use an ATO to keep salinity on par.

Maybe some of this might help, yup, it's a lot of work at first but the more you learn about your water, the less time it takes to manage it...or then again maybe just rambling on and on...

Maybe you can pull something from this, as you know your tank best....cheers

 

[Aquariumjim]

Some great food for thought in your post.

I put the frag straight at the top of my rock work as I was advised it should be place high up in good flow ... maybe I baked it!

So would you put all new frags at the bottom of the tank and bring them up slowly?

I was naive to think since I didn’t have coral yet there would be nothing to make the parameters change.

I think I’m going to do a large water change today and then leave the tank for 5 days without dosing anything to work out my consumption for daily dosing measurements.

I have an auto top off and salinity was stable before and I hope will be again at 1.026.

I have been testing weekly since putting the coral in (often every few days because of the problems I’m having) and spreadsheet it like you.

Thanks again for all the advice. I will keep a good grip on all the parameters and hopefully these teething problems will pass and I can end up with some beautiful hand sized corals myself.

Wish me luck

 

[mcgyvr]

In addition to the good info already given..
A montis new growth is at the edges and is typically white/pale.. so that could just be new growth..
Also you could have just bleached the poc and it can/will recover.. or its RTN
Got pics? That would help here..
(remember.. don't give us acid trip blue light pictures as proper color rendition can be important)

And...Its highly unlikely that you should be/need to dose anything at this point with so few corals..

 

[Aquariumjim]

Ok here is my pictures (I'm definitely not a photographer) hopefully you can make it out

 

[mcgyvr]

That poc is dead.. How long did you have it? How quick did it go from colored to skeleton?
Monti isn't good either..

How old is the tank?

I'd suggest avoiding SPS corals for now..

 

[Aquariumjim]

Hmm I thought so

This tank was a FOWLR for about 1 1/2 years. But the rock and some of the fish were from a 10 year old tank that I had given to me.

So I thought the system should be mature.

As I said above I had some up and down readings when I first added the corals (i kept salt at 1.024 and never tested for calcium alk mag etc) so I dosed the tank to bring it into line. Thinking it would be stable once up but the alk dropped and then came back up (without dosing anything, I assumed it was an off reading but maybe not)

I had hoped that as my numbers seemed ok to me (mag a little high maybe) everything would workout great. It’s obviously a water issue though so something has to be wrong maybe I should get a new test this one was brought with the tank.

That hasn’t been the case obviously.

 

[Aquariumjim]

Forgot to answer, coral took around 9 days but looked a little worse every day that passed from day one (was an instant steady decline)

 

[Aquavaj]

I think the main culprit is the lighting. Too much can kill a coral quick. Your parameters can be a little off and although they're not going to like it they usually won't die that quickly.

Also, what are your tank temps?

 

[Aquariumjim]

Temp is 27 c (although it did climb to 29 in the heat wave!)

Again, thanks everyone.

 

[Aquariumjim]

Also I have moved the monty down near the bottom and I’ll slowly move it up over a few weeks (see if it helps) the poc is getting glued to the top of the over flow box as a reminder!

 

[mcgyvr]

FYI..
Here is a great read on tank parameters..
In general anywhere in those stated "ranges" are fine..
BUT corals like stability so long as the number is stable in that range..
Stability is more important than the specific number..

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/
Low nutrient tanks (zero nitrate/phosphate) may have problems if their alk level is over like 9 or so..

Unnecessary dosing can certainly cause coral demise..
And we have all lost a coral here and there.. it happens even when everything seems perfect..
Some just really don't like "change"

 

[Uncle99]

First thing I do is cut off the plug, and dip the coral for 15 minutes in revive, except SPS, which I only use Bayer, inspect with a magnifying glass for any "bugs" and after this, they start at the bottom. Then for a week, I see how they do and look for spots based on light needs and flow needs. Then I move up towards the spot for another week. Lastly I move to the final selected spot for a third week. By months end if it looks happy, I secure it. Now things that belong on rock go to rock, things that belong on the sand go on the sand, I try to give them of course, there natural spot.

As you have likely experienced, Mcgyvr's postings are always direct and spot on, he points out the stability factor which I would guess would be when all 8 parameters stay within the ranges for more than 3 months.

Softies will tolerate some flux, SPS will tolerate no flux.

Your light gas enough intensity to easily fry any coral.

And I will wish you luck, your heading in the right direction!

 

[Daddi0]

It may be that the corals died because of the sudden spike in mag. I would say once you get your parameters stable, try again.
Cheers! Mark

 

[Aquariumjim]

That’s a great link mcgyver! If a little daunting lol I think a combination of problems caused the death.

Instability as you have both mentioned. I think I pulled the numbers up to fast and should have crept them up over a month not a few days.
I also think I should have left it a few weeks to make sure everything had settled before impulse buying those beautiful glowing frags (I’m like a bug I can’t resist the glow under actinic’s)

And slapping them about 15” from the led was definitely a stupid move.

Well I’m gonna get my numbers stable and follow Uncle99’s advise on placement and dipping (I didn’t dip any of the corals either)

I feel my first coral purchase was a bit of a slap in the face. Time to re group, read a ton of threads on here and have another go.

Watch this space I will have a pic of a thriving reef in my bio in no time can’t thank everyone enough for there time and knowledge.

 

[Uncle99]

That's a great link mcgyver! If a little daunting lol I think a combination of problems caused the death.

Instability as you have both mentioned. I think I pulled the numbers up to fast and should have crept them up over a month not a few days.
I also think I should have left it a few weeks to make sure everything had settled before impulse buying those beautiful glowing frags (I'm like a bug I can't resist the glow under actinic's)

And slapping them about 15" from the led was definitely a stupid move.

Well I'm gonna get my numbers stable and follow Uncle99's advise on placement and dipping (I didn't dip any of the corals either)

I feel my first coral purchase was a bit of a slap in the face. Time to re group, read a ton of threads on here and have another go.

Watch this space I will have a pic of a thriving reef in my bio in no time can't thank everyone enough for there time and knowledge.

Been there done that....I am sure all of us have done that before.

Great attitude.