Help! Getting small shocks from my lights... stray voltage?

[reeferoni]

Hi, I noticed this morning that my lights are causing shocks and I have no idea how to handle this!!

I have an 8-bulb T5 unit that I have been running for about a month... I regularly move it around, clean salt creep off the bulbs/reflectors etc so I've handled it before and know this hasn't started until recently. This morning though I touched the metal side of the light (on the outside) and got a sharp zap... tried again, same thing. I then unplugged it and touched it to find the shock was gone, so that is definitely the source. I left it unplugged but had to leave for work.

A few questions as I am in semi-panic and have no idea how to handle this:

-Is/was this dangerous to my fish when the lighting unit is suspended above the tank by plastic stands? Can the plastic conduct electricity from the metal to the wooden (laminated) tank rim, down to the water? My fish and 2 anemones all seem okay, though they were still in the dark/sleeping when I left...

-What causes this? Is it "stray voltage"? I had the lamp plugged into one of these:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000KKJS3U/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00
which was plugged into the wall socket (three-pronged outlet, but how do I tell if it is grounded or not??)

-I just spent like $500 on this unit last month... what can I do now? Is it possible there was just water splashed somewhere it shouldn't be? (the lamp doesn't have an acrylic splash guard like my old one, it has "Triple-seal silicone endcaps protect wires and lamp pins so no lens cover is required" (taken from product description). Could those have failed? Will a titanium ground probe fix my problem?

HELP... I know nothing about this stuff!!

 

[staindsoul]

there is some basic stuff here.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2219254

do you have a picture of your setup? i was curious how close the fixture is to the tank that it gets salt creep on it.

do you have your equipment on a gfi? if not plug the fixture into gfi and see if it trips. if it does you have a issue with the fixture wether it is because of corrosion or manufacturer defect is what you can figure out after that has been done. plastic wont conduct electricity. good call on unplugging it though.

 

[mcgyvr]

be aware...he could still have a short on the secondary side of the ballast and the GFCI will not trip.

 

[reeferoni]

there is some basic stuff here.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2219254

do you have a picture of your setup? i was curious how close the fixture is to the tank that it gets salt creep on it.

do you have your equipment on a gfi? if not plug the fixture into gfi and see if it trips. if it does you have a issue with the fixture wether it is because of corrosion or manufacturer defect is what you can figure out after that has been done. plastic wont conduct electricity. good call on unplugging it though.

Thank you for that... I had read some "summary" posts but none as well explained as that one. This does raise a few more questions for me though:

-The cord reel thing I bought (linked in OP) has a "10 amp circuit breaker" in it... is that totally unrelated to GFCI/any of the other elements mentioned in your other post? I was under the impression that it worked like a GFCI but see now that that is probably false.
-Would plugging the cord reels into one of these:
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produ...D=525415677&catargetid=1570177483&cagpspn=pla
provide a safe GFCI, or does it need to be a wall outlet that is specifically designed for that? I just want to make sure I'm buying the right equiptment to protect myself in future...
-Do you need a grounding probe like this: http://www.marinedepot.com/miscellaneous_titanium_grounding_probe-ap.html
if your equipment already has a 3-pronged plug (or the cord reel thing does)? I thought the third part of the plug was for grounding? What's the difference?

Please excuse my ignorance on this topic... I am so lost when it comes to this stuff so I apologize if my questions are ridiculous ones

 

[reeferoni]

Ah also realized I didn't answer your questions...

I don't have a pic but I use the standard plastic mounts it came with. This is the product info: http://www.aquaticlife.com/sites/default/files/umanuals/AL_EightLamp_T5HO_Manual.pdf
So I would say the mounts are about 4" high and my water is about 3-4" from the top of the tank, so lamps are 7-8" from the surface of the water (its not a ton of salt creep but does build up over a month or so...)

It is not a GFCI outlet (I don't think) because I've never noticed "test/reset" buttons on it (I'd have to check when I get home to be sure but I don't think it does).

I just read over the safety instructions from the product info and while it does mention a GFCI, it certainly doesn't make it sound necessary... it just stresses making sure you use a "grounded" outlet. Of course, it also says your tank has to be covered, but don't they all say that in the instructions, and doesn't everyone have an uncovered tank anyway for better oxygen exchange?

In any case, I just ordered a glass cover for the aquarium, so salt creep will no longer be able to reach the lamp...

 

[reeferoni]

be aware...he could still have a short on the secondary side of the ballast and the GFCI will not trip.

Thanks... also I'm a "she"

 

[mcgyvr]

A circuit breaker (like the 10A) does not protect you at all like a GFCI does.. It only trips when the current exceeds 10 amps) That GFCI one from foster/smith will work or even your local hardware store/home depot/lowes should have them.

and sorry about the "he"..my apologies :love1:

 

[rbirling]

The outside metal case should be connected to ground to prevent shocks like this. That's why they require a grounded outlet. So either your unit is defective and the case not grounded, or your outlet is not properly grounded. Yes, this is dangerous and can kill you. If you have a meter, you should check the continuity between the ground pin on the plug and the metal case. Set the meter on ohms, and you should get very near zero. Also, you need to have the outlet checked for a good ground. You might want to have an electrician or other knowledgeable person check that.

 

[reeferoni]

The outside metal case should be connected to ground to prevent shocks like this. That's why they require a grounded outlet. So either your unit is defective and the case not grounded, or your outlet is not properly grounded. Yes, this is dangerous and can kill you. If you have a meter, you should check the continuity between the ground pin on the plug and the metal case. Set the meter on ohms, and you should get very near zero. Also, you need to have the outlet checked for a good ground. You might want to have an electrician or other knowledgeable person check that.

Thanks, I suppose this is the safest way to address the problem... I don't own the house (I rent) so I could easily get the owner to contact her electrician to check things out for me. In the meantime, my fish will hopefully be okay going without lights for a day or two...

 

[reeferoni]

One more question to everyone-- if I pick up a GFCI adapter thingy on my way home from work and plug everything in through this, is this a safe way to test it (to see if it cuts the power) or can I still get electrocuted this way?

 

[rbirling]

One more question to everyone-- if I pick up a GFCI adapter thingy on my way home from work and plug everything in through this, is this a safe way to test it (to see if it cuts the power) or can I still get electrocuted this way?

As was mentioned earlier, there can be a short that might not trip the GFCI, so it could still be unsafe. Touching it to test would not be the recommended method. However, if you install the GFCI, turn on the light and it immediately trips, you found your problem.

 

[staindsoul]

true, wanted to at least get to the primary side. Brings up a good point how many reef fixtures are running a electronic ballast? I havent taken one apart, i have been running leds. Just thinking about the nuisance tripping they can cause on a gfi.

be aware...he could still have a short on the secondary side of the ballast and the GFCI will not trip.

+1 to what mcgyvr said about the 10 amp breaker. The grounding probe is to ground your tank, the other grounding probes you see, are for those pieces of equipment. Dont use a probe w/o a gfi.

Thank you for that... I had read some "summary" posts but none as well explained as that one. This does raise a few more questions for me though:

-The cord reel thing I bought (linked in OP) has a "10 amp circuit breaker" in it... is that totally unrelated to GFCI/any of the other elements mentioned in your other post? I was under the impression that it worked like a GFCI but see now that that is probably false.
-Would plugging the cord reels into one of these:
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produ...D=525415677&catargetid=1570177483&cagpspn=pla
provide a safe GFCI, or does it need to be a wall outlet that is specifically designed for that? I just want to make sure I'm buying the right equiptment to protect myself in future...
-Do you need a grounding probe like this: http://www.marinedepot.com/miscellaneous_titanium_grounding_probe-ap.html
if your equipment already has a 3-pronged plug (or the cord reel thing does)? I thought the third part of the plug was for grounding? What's the difference?

Please excuse my ignorance on this topic... I am so lost when it comes to this stuff so I apologize if my questions are ridiculous ones

You MAY find you have a ph problem if you cover your tank.

Ah also realized I didn't answer your questions...

It is not a GFCI outlet (I don't think) because I've never noticed "test/reset" buttons on it (I'd have to check when I get home to be sure but I don't think it does).

I just read over the safety instructions from the product info and while it does mention a GFCI, it certainly doesn't make it sound necessary... it just stresses making sure you use a "grounded" outlet. Of course, it also says your tank has to be covered, but don't they all say that in the instructions, and doesn't everyone have an uncovered tank anyway for better oxygen exchange?

In any case, I just ordered a glass cover for the aquarium, so salt creep will no longer be able to reach the lamp...

+1 to NO on the touch test.

As was mentioned earlier, there can be a short that might not trip the GFCI, so it could still be unsafe. Touching it to test would not be the recommended method. However, if you install the GFCI, turn on the light and it immediately trips, you found your problem.

Its sounds like you have two possibilities, a defective fixture from the manufacturer, or a defective fixture from water splashing or salt creep.

 

[sleepydoc]

If you go to a hardware store or Home Depot/Lowes, you can get a GFCI receptacle tester for <$10. (http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...word=outlet+tester&storeId=10051#.UGt24kKUcso) It will help you determine if the outlet is wired correctly and let you check a GFCI outlet to see it it trips properly.

Many of the apartments I and friends have rented have had improperly wired receptacles, especially the older ones, so it probably wouldn't be a bad investment. A GFCI outlet is a mandatory (IMHO) for aquaria, but is even more important if your outlet is not grounded properly.

 

[reeferoni]

Thanks again all. I do realize that the cover may mess up my parameters, but I guess I will test it out given what happened this morning...

So when I told my bf about the problem with the lights, he asks "did you unplug it and then plug it back in?" I said I unplugged it, but was afraid to plug it back in and mess with it. So of course he plugged it back in and touched it. Nothing. So problem is gone now.

I guess this would indicate that a splash or salt creep was the problem? The only solution to this I can see is trying a glass top and seeing whether it has a negative effect on inhabitants (I don't keep SPS corals so my livestock may be okay with a small change)...

I still want to get a GFCI adapter, but here is my concern with that: aren't they very temperamental in terms of being set off (shutting off power), like even in the event of a small power surge it will turn everything off until it is reset? I can't have things turning themselves off all the time-- heck, I just spend 1k on a generator to make sure that I'd be protected in the event I lost power, so putting my tank on a power source that turns itself off until reset seems counter-intuitive.... or maybe my perception of GFCI switches as "temperamental" is ill-informed?

 

[mcgyvr]

In general GFCI's are pretty stable now.. Stuff/nuisance tripping can happen though (for reference I've had mine setup for 5 years and NEVER had a nuisance trip).. I think its also a good idea to run 2 or more GFCI's.. Putting some equipment on one and more on another.. If one goes the other is still keeping some stuff running till you can sort the problem out.

The ONLY time I've ever had a GFCI trip was on my outside koi pond.. The pump started leaking/shorting causing the GFCI to trip instantly.

 

[Chris27]

How bad was the shock? Was it a tingle, was it a jolt, etc.. you could just be experiencing an electromagnetic shock of sorts. The ballasts operate at a very high frequency to excite the gasses in the bulbs, that frequency can create a large magnetic field that can give you a little zing when you're grounded. It won't hurt you...just a little tingle.

As for the problem being fixed...it likely isn't. Unplugging the fixture did not fix the problem, it's not a computer that you can restart, it's an electrical device that was allowing some sort of energy to get to you. It would be in your best interest to test a thing or two before you say it's fixed.

FYI - your boyfriend may have been better insulated from the ground then you were....did he have thick rubber soled shoes or was he standing on the ground in bare feet?

 

[haftafish]

Thanks again all. I do realize that the cover may mess up my parameters, but I guess I will test it out given what happened this morning...

So when I told my bf about the problem with the lights, he asks "did you unplug it and then plug it back in?" I said I unplugged it, but was afraid to plug it back in and mess with it. So of course he plugged it back in and touched it. Nothing. So problem is gone now.

I guess this would indicate that a splash or salt creep was the problem? The only solution to this I can see is trying a glass top and seeing whether it has a negative effect on inhabitants (I don't keep SPS corals so my livestock may be okay with a small change)...

?

Sounds like a loose connection!!!! Be carefull with that fixture.

 

[sleepydoc]

GFCIs don't usually have a problem with 'nuisance tripping.' (AFCI's on the other hand do, but that's a different story.) If your GFCI is tripping, it probably means something is leaking current and you need to do some detective work.

I understand not wanting loose livestock from a power interruption, but better livestock than your life.

 

[jerpa]

GFCIs don't usually have a problem with 'nuisance tripping.' (AFCI's on the other hand do, but that's a different story.) If your GFCI is tripping, it probably means something is leaking current and you need to do some detective work.

I understand not wanting loose livestock from a power interruption, but better livestock than your life.

+1

We all care about our animals but you must be around to take care of them. It would be wise to find the problem with the light fixture before putting it into service again. Also, unless you are absolutely positive that you were not touching your aquarium in any way when you got shocked by your fixture you may need to check the equipment there as well. It is possible something is leaking current in the tank and you felt the shock because you were also touching grounded fixture.

 

[reeferoni]

In general GFCI's are pretty stable now.. Stuff/nuisance tripping can happen though (for reference I've had mine setup for 5 years and NEVER had a nuisance trip).. I think its also a good idea to run 2 or more GFCI's.. Putting some equipment on one and more on another.. If one goes the other is still keeping some stuff running till you can sort the problem out.

The ONLY time I've ever had a GFCI trip was on my outside koi pond.. The pump started leaking/shorting causing the GFCI to trip instantly.

This is good to know. I will probably get that GFCI adapter plug at least for my lights, or for non-essential items (lights, skimmer, maybe all but one of the powerheads, one of the two heaters), so that a nuisance trip won't result in a tank crash... also good suggestion re: getting two of them. I will order those.

How bad was the shock? Was it a tingle, was it a jolt, etc.. you could just be experiencing an electromagnetic shock of sorts. The ballasts operate at a very high frequency to excite the gasses in the bulbs, that frequency can create a large magnetic field that can give you a little zing when you're grounded. It won't hurt you...just a little tingle.

As for the problem being fixed...it likely isn't. Unplugging the fixture did not fix the problem, it's not a computer that you can restart, it's an electrical device that was allowing some sort of energy to get to you. It would be in your best interest to test a thing or two before you say it's fixed.

FYI - your boyfriend may have been better insulated from the ground then you were....did he have thick rubber soled shoes or was he standing on the ground in bare feet?

I thought about this, and even thought that perhaps it was a burn from the lights heating up as opposed to a shock, but I've tried it in several places/at several times during the day yesterday and haven't experienced it since then. I know its not fixed, but I'm just unsure what to do now... if I send it back to the manufacturer and they find nothing wrong with it, I doubt they'll replace the unit.

Also, bf was standing barefoot, I was actually the one with rubber-soled shoes on as I was still afraid to touch it lol.

GFCIs don't usually have a problem with 'nuisance tripping.' (AFCI's on the other hand do, but that's a different story.) If your GFCI is tripping, it probably means something is leaking current and you need to do some detective work.

I understand not wanting loose livestock from a power interruption, but better livestock than your life.

I agree... I guess the next step now aside from putting the glass lid on the tank to safe guard against splashes and plugging things in through two separate GFCI adapter plugs, would be to get something to test the voltage and test my items one by one?

Thanks again for the answers everyone I really appreciate all the input.