Help IceCap 660 Ballast and High Amp draw

[tdb320reef]

I just built a light for my 320 G reef and to my surprise the two Icecap 660 Ballasts are drawing about 10 AMPS according to my Apex. I am running 8 48" ATI bulbs.

I understand that they over drive the bulbs but if I do my math correct this would be running each bulb at 137.5 watts. The Ballast says it peaks at 4.4 AMPS and on research that is start up power then it should simmer down

On another system I have an 60" 8 X 80 Watt a Tek Light and that Peaks at about 5.5 Amps.


I don't understand where all of the power is going. Any help to understand would be great or I may need to rethink the T5's. Thanks.

 

[theatrus]

This is in line with my (old generation) IceCap 660 (4 bulbs).

Note that the IceCap ballast doesn't have any form of PFC on the input, so its real power is lower (plus its probably only about 80% efficient). Current measurements on AC are only really useful for breakers.

(For details on the guts, see: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2411098)

 

[tdb320reef]

So to make sure I understand the math.

The ballast is drawing 5 Amps
House Input is 110
and the Power Factor is 60% According to the manual

5 X 110 X.6 = 330 Watts

330 Watts / 4 Bulbs = 82.5 Watts Per Bulb

Subtracting 2.5 Watts for Overhead each bulb runs at 80 Watts.

From and Electric bill standpoint, I am actually paying for ~6 Amps for both ballasts.

Yes?

 

[theatrus]

So to make sure I under stand the math.

The ballast is drawing 5 Amps
House Input is 110
and the Power Factor is 60% According to the manual

5 X 110 X.6 = 330 Watts

330 Watts / 4 Bulbs = 82.5 Watts Per Bulb

Subtracting 2.5 Watts for Overhead each bulb runs at 80 Watts.

From and Electric bill standpoint, I am actually paying for ~6 Amps.

Yes?

Math lines up with what I'm expecting!

If you have a digital house meter, it should be easy to see instantaneous real kW on the LCD display with the lights on and off as a reference. Or if I ever find my Kill-A-Watt again I can double check the kW reading.

(Note that if you were an industrial customer. you would likely be penalized for a really bad power factor - while its not real power, the transmission system needs to be able to still deal with the current moving)

 

[tdb320reef]

Math lines up with what I'm expecting!

If you have a digital house meter, it should be easy to see instantaneous real kW on the LCD display with the lights on and off as a reference. Or if I ever find my Kill-A-Watt again I can double check the kW reading.

(Note that if you were an industrial customer. you would likely be penalized for a really bad power factor - while its not real power, the transmission system needs to be able to still deal with the current moving)

Theatrus,

Thanks for sharing your expertise and fast response.

Tom

 

[alton]

Here is your formula
4*80 watts = 320 watts total
320/.6 = 533.33/120 volts = 4.44 amps which is listed on the label as max input
Not sure why you are using 5 amps each ballast? The max listed is 4.4
I guess if you had 4 x 110w of VHO lamps = 440 watts total to stay at the 4.4 amps max your formula would be 440w/.83 = 530/120v = 4.41 amps
Normally the ballast only uses the power needed, but with ice cap I guess it will use 4.4 amps no matter how many lamps you use?
You might as well be using 4 x 250 MH lamps, you would use less power.

 

[theatrus]

320/.6 = 533.33/120 volts = 4.44 amps which is listed on the label as max input

The ballast is a constant power device - assuming house inlet is 110 and 5-10V drop on a heavily loaded circuit, 5+A wouldn't be unheard of.

Normally the ballast only uses the power needed, but with ice cap I guess it will use 4.4 amps no matter how many lamps you use?

Not sure how you reached that conclusion?

 

[alton]

Let say you have a ballast that powers 1 or 2 - 40w T8's. If you use 2 lamps the ballast draw will be .68 amps. But if you connect only 1 lamp your draw would be .34 amps not
.68 amps. This would kill anyone trying to stay under the lighting codes

 

[alton]

A normal T5HO ballast supplying 4 x 80 watt lamps should draw some where around 2.8 amps with power factor. Your Tek light is normal, your Ice cap ballast could never be used in a commercial fixture where energy codes have to be met.

 

[theatrus]

The IceCap driven T5s are way out of spec, which was part of the appeal back when I upgraded.

Once I run out of bulbs bought on sale (switching every 10months or so) I'm going to finally end up converting to LED.

 

[tdb320reef]

The ballast is a constant power device - assuming house inlet is 110 and 5-10V drop on a heavily loaded circuit, 5+A wouldn't be unheard of.



Not sure how you reached that conclusion?

Okay I am confused again. If anyone has tested an IceCap Ballast with a KillAWatt meter and you please chime in.

Thanks.

 

[outssider]

I have 2 - 660's. one is the original the other is the new 660 coralvue version (same ballast actually). They both draw around 220 watts running 4- 54 watt t5's (according to a kilowatt meter).
I called and asked coralvue why my meter showed that the bulbs were only driven at approximately the standard 54 watts (not overdriven) ? their answer was that the kilowatt meter was not able to test the draw correctly.

I can tell you that the bulbs do look extremely bright compared to a stock t5 fixture and do run extremely hot on the ends even though the ends are cooled by fans. funny thing is that when I test a regular 40 watt light bulb (incandescent), the meter does read 40 watts.

I asked about this a couple years ago on this forum with no replies, so i gave up!

 

[theatrus]

Okay I am confused again. If anyone has tested an IceCap Ballast with a KillAWatt meter and you please chime in.

Thanks.

SMPS and electronic ballasts are generally able to fully control their outputs, and will deliver a fixed power on their output (altering output voltage). In order to do so, they will also draw a relatively fixed power. As voltage drops (within limits), current will increase to maintain the same power.

(The IceCap front end looks exactly like a SMPS - rectify and filter to ~170VDC, then feed through at a higher frequency through the transformers.)

I called and asked coralvue why my meter showed that the bulbs were only driven at approximately the standard 54 watts (not overdriven) ? their answer was that the kilowatt meter was not able to test the draw correctly.

Power meters are hard to build accurately, but the best quality one is generally already attached to the side of your house. I'll do some measurements in the next few days for more data.

 

[theatrus]

Found the Kill-A-Watt.

4.5A. 342W. 521VA.

 

[tdb320reef]

Found the Kill-A-Watt.

4.5A. 342W. 521VA.

Awesome Thanks, I ordered a meter and will report back my findings as well. Hopefully our data will assist those in the future with the same questions considering coralvue responded with some generic response listed below

"The 660 ballasts do not have power factor correction and has high harmonics. I believe the Apex may be calculating a false reading."

 

[tdb320reef]

I have 2 - 660's. one is the original the other is the new 660 coralvue version (same ballast actually). They both draw around 220 watts running 4- 54 watt t5's (according to a kilowatt meter).
I called and asked coralvue why my meter showed that the bulbs were only driven at approximately the standard 54 watts (not overdriven) ? their answer was that the kilowatt meter was not able to test the draw correctly.

I can tell you that the bulbs do look extremely bright compared to a stock t5 fixture and do run extremely hot on the ends even though the ends are cooled by fans. funny thing is that when I test a regular 40 watt light bulb (incandescent), the meter does read 40 watts.

I asked about this a couple years ago on this forum with no replies, so i gave up!

Thanks, Ill post my results when my meter shows up.

 

[alton]

Just remember this; Watts is True Power and Volt Amps is Apparent Power. I still having a hard time the ballast will draw its max load no matter how many lamps it is powering?

 

[tdb320reef]

Just remember this; Watts is True Power and Volt Amps is Apparent Power. I still having a hard time the ballast will draw its max load no matter how many lamps it is powering?

Agreed, That is a bit odd and is not behavior of other ballast/fixtures.

 

[theatrus]

Considering the ballast construction, it really has two channels. The ballast will cut out if either of the channels isn't in its expected operating mode.

As for the harmonics, yes, they're high. The main switch is operating at about 9kHz, but with all the input filtering I expect that to be significantly reduced. Top end meters will be able to report parameters at about the 63rd harmonic.

I consider the Apex EB current reading more of a "yup theres load" indicator. I also still wish the bars were UV/TUV/CSA listed.

 

[tdb320reef]

Good News I received my Kill a watt meter and running through an Apex EB8 with all other outlets turned off I am getting 646 Watts with only the T5's on. Therefore the icecap ballast are running each bulb at 80 watts. Even thought the ballast are drawing 5 Amps it only uses about 3. I guess that closes this and I hope this will help those using icecap t5 ballast in the future.

Thanks!