Help ICH

aaronlp

New member
Ok so figures i get a 2 tangs and a jawfish, and of course i get ich...probally the dumbest mistake i made again and now im staying away from these guys for good! I need help i have a75 and my tangs(Desdarjini and LemonPeel and bluespot jawfish have Ich) Early symptons too so hopefully i can stop this quicker. Does anyone have any good treatments to stop ich? I have a reef tank to so i cant dose copper and i have inverts as well.

I WANT THIS GONE FOR GOOD! PLEASE HELP!


Any medications i can use directly into the tank without harming corals or inverts

Or a treatment in a hospital that wont take months to do?

Thanks for your help!
 
Last edited:
start setting up a qt tank.....

I might be in the minority here, and I understand that it is just my opinion. But I have had good luck with taking the wait and see approach while keeping up with good diet and water quality. It has worked for me with a Tang and Copper Banded Butterfly.
 
Set up a QT for a few months treat the ich. Ich can actually survive without a host (although I cannt remember how long), so you want to make sure it's dead before you put any fish back into your tank. If you "wait and see" you run the risk of a small amount of parasites remaining in your tank, even if nothing is visible.
 
I wouldn't wait it out and see. There are 3 proven methods to treat fish. All of them must be done in a separate tank. Hyposalinity, copper, and tank transfer. I would do one of those, but which ones depends on all your fish.
 
I actually agree on waiting it out depending on the health of the fish. By removing the fish and placing them in a qt tank, you can stress them out and futher lower their immune system. A fish with ich tends to scratch himself on the rocks for relief and cuts themselves. You take that fish into qt and some medications will burn the open wounds.

In order to remove ich you must remove all fish into qt for 6-8 weeks after the last sign of it.
 
First, if you can catch your fish... Quarantine is good. All new fish(not already existing in your system)should be quarantined first as well.
However, lets face it- many of us know, In full blown reef tank... it's pretty hard to catch fish(especially Tangs) that know their tank, without ripping the whole thing down by removing all your rock.

You don't want to do that. It could cause more harm to many things than leaving them in and treating as one can with reef safe methods.

#1

If your Tangs have good appetite still (I'm guessing they do) Keep feeding.
FEED FEED FEED extra than normal. As in many more times per day.

As long as they eat like pigs their immune system should stay up. Then eventually they should kick the Ich outbreak on their own with the help of the diet. You can also boost it by soaking food in vitamin supplements. Especially soaked Norri or algae strips. Mysis soaked will also make them feel better.

Do water changes as needed to keep things in check for both water quality(for the fish and coral(s) and Disease(Ich parasites) cycle is disrupted to an extent by improving water quality while feeding extra.

it could take as long as a couple months or more. But often I've seen Tangs completely kick it even a few short days. Like 3-4.

#2

You can also use a Reef Safe product called Marine "Microbe-Lift"
A liquid additive that helps in prevention as well as a treatment of sorts along with the extra feeding. It's harmless to all reef inhabitants. As long as you don't over dose. (Does not hurt corals or other invertibrates) Helps to disrupt the Ich life cycle, aiding in ridding it from appearing in your system.

some Ich may always be present. Many tanks live with it. Only fish with recent stressors tend to develop and have it appear on them. Otherwise Ich swims around and has problems attaching to a host even if there are a lot of potential hosts. Fish strong enough don't get hosted on. Or if they do, beat an occasional outbreak off rather quickly. Especially in very established reef tanks.

#3
A lot of people don't use them... but a Future option would be to install an Ultra-Violet Sterilizer onto your system. Every time you need it, Run it for a while. (After Water changes, maybe when adding new inhabitants etc..)
I don't know any one who runs one constantly. Since people like more beneficial pods to grow. (it will irradiate in the water anything passing thru it)
 
I will say one more thing. In a few days following: "the FEED extra, watch water quality, and wait it out method" (which should always be done first in my opinion as long as your fish are not totally infested/covered)- "if" you don't see enough improvement or worse- an increase of ICH infestation... then immediately resort to the last resort in that case. Your fish will have to be removed and treated for Ich with Copper in a Quarantine tank.

But don't jump to that. Both methods are correct. The key is knowing when to do them.
 
Some good info was posted. You can use selcon garlic to mix with your foods to help the fishes immune system. You can also add a couple of cleaner shrimp. They will pick the ich right off of the fish. It may take a few days for the fish to figure out what the cleaner shrimp do. I used to have 2 in my 90 and they kept my fish spotless.JME..
 
A QT is the way to go, before you get the fish! I did the same thing.

+1 to all the feeding info!!

I have a hippo tang that I introduced. All was good for a week, then the first spots developed. At the advice of the folks at ABCreefs (thanks Jeremy!), I fed with Thera A+, and mysis, ova and seaweed, all mixed with GVH extract. What I'm saying is a varied diet, but ALL soaked in Garlic (except the Thera!). That was over 4 months ago, and there hasn't been another case. I can't impress enough the power of good diet to boost the immune system. And yes, ich will remain in the tank, so just keep a good feeding regimen for fish health. It took about 7 to 10 days to totally clear up. Good luck Aaron!
 
Excellent posts by Henry and Sophie.

Also wanted to say, quarantines do work very well when needed as an absolute. But for those who may think that clear reef tanks with no sign of Ich for months to years- do not mean they are not exposed to it.. they are most likely mistaken in thinking so.

A tank can be totally "clear". But one would never really know if it was for sure. Even with healthy fish that never break out, even with a quarantine tank for "new" fish before they are added to your DT. Why? & How?

Do you occasionally add another piece of LR or a Coral attached to a rock or plugs?? Most of us do at least once in a while. Even when it's not on a "fish"... Ich can enter a pristine reef tank via other means. Such as via a newly added coral or inside a rock(s). It can hitchhike from one environment to another even if it's not currently on a fish host. Since it can live for a decent period of time on any surface or free swimming in water and invisible. All while not coming from a fish.

That's why those that fantasize about the thought of a parasite free aquarium because they always quarantine new fish or use occasional UV are doing purely that. Fantasizing.

Quarantine does prevent new fish Ich transfer- hands down. But it doesn't cover everything. Most people don't think about that a lot since the parasite is most thought of as being associated with an infected fish. But it does not start out that way. & if you have UV, you may not always be running it when a transfer occurs.

Reef tanks that seem to never catch ICH, are simply that way by the chances because they are well established and well taken care of with fish that are really strong immune wise. Strong and resistant because of the long established parameters and conditions. The longer a healthy tank thrives and the fish(especially Tangs) are cared for very well.. the stronger and resistant the whole system with fish is to parasite infestations. Even when some may have entered the tank, the owner never knew because the systems health never allowed the ich invaders to mature enough to materialize.

Just sayin'
Helpful FYI

Don't be fooled by the myth that quarantining everything will keep a system Ichless. You should quarantine. But it's not the end all for the parasite getting in your tank. Every bag of water you bring home or even a wet rock not in water currently but added to the tank is a potential..

A 100% Ich free tank forever going by all the procedures is a myth.
 
i absolutely agree with this post....

Excellent posts by Henry and Sophie.

Also wanted to say, quarantines do work very well when needed as an absolute. But for those who may think that clear reef tanks with no sign of Ich for months to years- do not mean they are not exposed to it.. they are most likely mistaken in thinking so.

A tank can be totally "clear". But one would never really know if it was for sure. Even with healthy fish that never break out, even with a quarantine tank for "new" fish before they are added to your DT. Why? & How?

Do you occasionally add another piece of LR or a Coral attached to a rock or plugs?? Most of us do at least once in a while. Even when it's not on a "fish"... Ich can enter a pristine reef tank via other means. Such as via a newly added coral or inside a rock(s). It can hitchhike from one environment to another even if it's not currently on a fish host. Since it can live for a decent period of time on any surface or free swimming in water and invisible. All while not coming from a fish.

That's why those that fantasize about the thought of a parasite free aquarium because they always quarantine new fish or use occasional UV are doing purely that. Fantasizing.

Quarantine does prevent new fish Ich transfer- hands down. But it doesn't cover everything. Most people don't think about that a lot since the parasite is most thought of as being associated with an infected fish. But it does not start out that way. & if you have UV, you may not always be running it when a transfer occurs.

Reef tanks that seem to never catch ICH, are simply that way by the chances because they are well established and well taken care of with fish that are really strong immune wise. Strong and resistant because of the long established parameters and conditions. The longer a healthy tank thrives and the fish(especially Tangs) are cared for very well.. the stronger and resistant the whole system with fish is to parasite infestations. Even when some may have entered the tank, the owner never knew because the systems health never allowed the ich invaders to mature enough to materialize.

Just sayin'
Helpful FYI

Don't be fooled by the myth that quarantining everything will keep a system Ichless. You should quarantine. But it's not the end all for the parasite getting in your tank. Every bag of water you bring home or even a wet rock not in water currently but added to the tank is a potential..

A 100% Ich free tank forever going by all the procedures is a myth.
 
well ive been adding garlic to everything food algae clips into the water and stuff seems to be working hopefully it clears!
 
The fish won't be able to fight off all the ich when feeding garlic. That is how it stays in tanks for a long time and seems to keep coming back. If the fish could fight it totally off, the parasite would die off because it couldn't feed. Yeah, you're helping, but you could be doing more and totally eradicate it from your system.

Think of it like giving a dog a bath to wash off fleas. Yeah, a lot of them get washed off, but if you don't kill all the fleas, the dog will still be getting it's blood sucked (just like a fish does). Ich doesn't just attack the outside of the fish, so even though you think the fish is perfectly fine, ich could be attached to the gills.


Cleaner shrimp and fish don't eat the trophont stage of the ich either. The trophont is under the skin of the fish.
 
Yes keep feeding.

You say "Garlic" as in that liquid attractant that can be added to food.
It can sometimes help fish that don't want to eat. Makes them want to try it sometimes.
But if your fish are readily eating well, you don't really need the garlic, even though you could keep it up.. since it's not going to hurt in anyway.

What you should try is a liquid vitamin supplement.(which is something different) Such as "SELCON" or "VITACHEM".

Any good reef shop usually carries some. Either one is good. Henry already pointed this out in his previous post. You ad some to the frozen food- mix it up or soak Norri seaweed/algae strips in it before clipping in the tank.
The intake of the vitamins with the food will "boost" the process of immune system getting stronger and speed up the end of your Ich episodes.
 

Attachments

  • selcon.jpg
    selcon.jpg
    6 KB · Views: 3
  • vitachem.jpg
    vitachem.jpg
    2.8 KB · Views: 4
I think there are more people than you think (very good reefers and I have known some)
that are guilty of just taking the chance and adding some fish without QT myself (an ok reefer) included. So donโ€™t beat yourself up to much. IMO the fish usually go down hill so fast that by the time you really notice they are doing worse they are to far gone. I would try to get them out and do hypo salinity or copper whichever you would be most comfortable with. Hypo salinity has worked for me in the past. Leaving the tank fallow for 6 to 8 weeks would clear the tank up. Of course the best prevention is to QT before putting new fish in your tank.
 
Yes, Ich can be inside the gills and other areas where you can't see it all.

As far as clearing your tank entirely of the parasite in every form...
The process for doing this would require removal from the tank of all fish entirely.

Which depending on the age of the system may or may not be a good idea.
You'd have to tear it down- most if not all the rock. Then treat the fish and leave your DT empty of fish, so the parasites die off from having NO fish hosts. Would take 2-3 months roughly. It can "clear" the tank.

But again, this is a big process that does not guarantee the success of never having ICH again. Since after it's clear... it can re enter your system via any other means again in the future. Not a guaranteed process. Most tanks live with ICH, often never appearing on your fish because of the overall health and immune system that is built up over time.

I would not recommend the tear down procedure- UNLESS your fish are so bad that the infestation is going to kill them rapidly. A judgment call...

Ask Tom at the reef shoppe or caribbean forest, most people will tell you if your Tangs are vigorously eating enough and you heavy feed during this period.. it's not worth doing a tear down of the system unless it's a last resort.

Tear downs can cause varying degrees of other problems detrimental to the system... making more issues to deal with. Coral stress, Disturbing a lot of rock can set toxins in the water too. Maybe in a really new tank that was rushed you could do this a little easier by just starting over. But it's not a good idea if you can help it- in a more established system.
 
It's a judgement call.. again- the problem combined with how your system is usually managed, it's age and how used to certain factors that can arise.. whether it would be worth it or not.

If you can manage to get your fish out, Hyposalinity did work for me a couple times in the past as well. It is a good treatment for the "fish"...

But one must way other factors sometimes. What else do you have in the tank and how old is it?? It could be the determining factor to way the risk on whether a tear down is worth.. or if your best to treat as you are and not disturb the rest of the system.
 
I'm really sad about the ich and that so much credence is given to a" wait and see method. Really ,'wait and see" now has the status of a method" ? It thought mtyhs about reef safe treatments, garlic, uvs ,cleaner shrimp ,feeding to boost immune sytems , and ich is mysteriously everywhere had gone a little further down the road follwed by the thousands upon thousands of fish that die needlessly from this protozoan(crytocaryon irritans) in the confines of aquariums.

Garlic is a nice appetite enhancer for some fish, nothing more .

Cleaner shrimp don't eat the parasite ;they pick at the wounds.

It's a parasite and it will attack a healthy or a sick fish with equal ferocity: it's not an immune system issue per se. Fish should always be fed well and kept in high quality water..


UV's won't kill this parasite ;it's too big and even if the uv is enormous it won't kill cysts or parasites that don't pass through it.

Reef safe potions that effectively remove this parasite don't exist.

Fish get better in a few days after using this or that. That's a placebo effect. Fish that survive the first infestation often heal and look healthy but then in a week or so the infestation appears again with a vengance and they often die. Each parasite that leaves a fish and encysts can produce 100 to 200 new ones.

Don't move the fish ; you'll stress it. I suppose so , if you drop it on the floor or dump it in a tiny tank crowded tank with no resting places and allow the ammonia to rise or chase it for hours. But if you can capture it gently and put it in a tank with lower salinity ,say a drop of .005, and treat it by tank transfer or copper for those not sensitive to it , it will suffer a lot less stress than it will when it is eaten alive by parasites and it's gills inflame to a point where it can't get adequate oxygen to sustain life ; no matter how much you feed it.


That is just how it is.
Ich in a closed system like an aquarium is a killer ,it needs to be treated effectively. Pretending it's not is tragic.

There are three proven methods and they are all labor intensive. All involve leaving the display tank fishless for 72 days and treating exposed fish outside the display in a quarantine tank or tanks. The quarantine tank must be set up to insure against ammonia toxicity and if the fish is going to be there for prolonged treatment , like hypo , the tank needs to large enough for the fish . The methods are are :
Tank transfer
Copper
hypo slainity( sometimes ineffective against resistant strains)


This parasite has been well studied as have treatments. There is no data to support any of the myths.
Quarantine and prophylactic treatment for new specimens( via tank transfer ,my favorite, or copper for most specimens ) stops it from getting in the tank in the first place. Once it's there ,it'll be there indefinitely( or at least a year or more) as long as there is a fish to host it. Fish that survive exposure (most don't) develop partial immunity but it's only partial and the fish still hosts it in the softer tissue of the mouth ,gills and nostrils.This may keep the ich population down but not out. Each time a parasite leaves a fish ,it goes to a surface,(rock sand ,etc) and encysts. It multiplies 100 to 200 fold and comes out for a second attack and then multiplies again and so on . New fish added to such a tank will be attacked even if the remaining fish in it appear healthy. This and often sparks an outbreak that sometimes overwhelms even partially immune fish.

I hope your fish make it whatever courseyou take. If you decide to set up a treatment tank . I'd be happy to answer any questions you have and help you pick an effective treatment method.
 

Similar threads

Back
Top